OK, I'm Calling It...

[Mongo3451]

JaMarcus Webb is better than Chris Williams.

 

The ceiling vs floor argument should be over, as Williams floor at LT is immensly low. He doesn't have the quickness, power or leverage to sustain blocks. Sure, he makes less mistakes than Webb, but it's not enough to overcome his shortcomings. Webb wins by default.

 

That being said, we are in desparate need of an LG. Spencer makes too much money to have a roster spot. He takes a paycut or gets cut - IMO. Rachal was a wasted signing and should be cut.

 

Carimi looked much better, with Garza an Louis remaining solid.

 

I have to say, in this make or break year. I go for it and put Williams back at LG as the starter. Then, try to sign a swing tackle if an experienced vet gets cap cut. Or try a late round trade.

 

Lastly, I haven't spoken about our TE's when talking OL, but they have been subpar. Spaeth should not make the team, as I have found him completely useless.

[Stinger226]

JaMarcus Webb is better than Chris Williams.

 

The ceiling vs floor argument should be over, as Williams floor at LT is immensly low. He doesn't have the quickness, power or leverage to sustain blocks. Sure, he makes less mistakes than Webb, but it's not enough to overcome his shortcomings. Webb wins by default.

 

That being said, we are in desparate need of an LG. Spencer makes too much money to have a roster spot. He takes a paycut or gets cut - IMO. Rachal was a wasted signing and should be cut.

 

Carimi looked much better, with Garza an Louis remaining solid.

 

I have to say, in this make or break year. I go for it and put Williams back at LG as the starter. Then, try to sign a swing tackle if an experienced vet gets cap cut. Or try a late round trade.

 

Lastly, I haven't spoken about our TE's when talking OL, but they have been subpar. Spaeth should not make the team, as I have found him completely useless.

I got a feeling Williams may be cut as bad as he looked. This part of the team aint looking good going in the season. A WEAK LEFT SIDE OF OL.Maybe we can pick someone elses camp cuts, and end up being better off. Evan R. looks like he has upside as a TE

[Guest TerraTor]

JaMarcus Webb is better than Chris Williams.

 

The ceiling vs floor argument should be over, as Williams floor at LT is immensly low. He doesn't have the quickness, power or leverage to sustain blocks. Sure, he makes less mistakes than Webb, but it's not enough to overcome his shortcomings. Webb wins by default.

 

That being said, we are in desparate need of an LG. Spencer makes too much money to have a roster spot. He takes a paycut or gets cut - IMO. Rachal was a wasted signing and should be cut.

 

Carimi looked much better, with Garza an Louis remaining solid.

 

I have to say, in this make or break year. I go for it and put Williams back at LG as the starter. Then, try to sign a swing tackle if an experienced vet gets cap cut. Or try a late round trade.

 

Lastly, I haven't spoken about our TE's when talking OL, but they have been subpar. Spaeth should not make the team, as I have found him completely useless.

 

 

Cant argue with any of those.... and Frankly, after Spaeth missing the block which hurt Forte, he is immensely Useless

[Bears4Ever_34]

If Williams can't win a starting job at either position on the line, what purpose does he serve on this roster other than just being another body? He's been a huge disappointment this off-season. He won't get cut, but he is quickly playing his way off the team if his play continues to be like this.

[balta1701-A]

If Williams can't win a starting job at either position on the line, what purpose does he serve on this roster other than just being another body? He's been a huge disappointment this off-season. He won't get cut, but he is quickly playing his way off the team if his play continues to be like this.

Backup/swing tackle is a useful position to have a body at, as long as he isn't too expensive.

[rockren]

Backup/swing tackle is a useful position to have a body at, as long as he isn't too expensive.

 

Your love affair with Chris Williams has gotten old....but I agree he isn't expensive at just $1MIL this year.

 

I'd rather just have him as a backup G, let Brown be the backup swing T and cut Spencer who makes $2.25MIL this year.

[jason]

JaMarcus Webb is better than Chris Williams.

 

The ceiling vs floor argument should be over, as Williams floor at LT is immensly low. He doesn't have the quickness, power or leverage to sustain blocks. Sure, he makes less mistakes than Webb, but it's not enough to overcome his shortcomings. Webb wins by default.

 

That being said, we are in desparate need of an LG. Spencer makes too much money to have a roster spot. He takes a paycut or gets cut - IMO. Rachal was a wasted signing and should be cut.

 

Carimi looked much better, with Garza an Louis remaining solid.

 

I have to say, in this make or break year. I go for it and put Williams back at LG as the starter. Then, try to sign a swing tackle if an experienced vet gets cap cut. Or try a late round trade.

 

Lastly, I haven't spoken about our TE's when talking OL, but they have been subpar. Spaeth should not make the team, as I have found him completely useless.

 

 

I haven't seen the entire game yet - only the first three offensive drives - but if you think Williams did worse than Webb, who played pretty damn bad thus far (only one great job in 12 plays, touched virtually nobody on three of those plays, and required help three times, one of which definitely saved Webb from a blown assignment), then I can't wait to see how poorly Williams does. He must literally slap a DE on the ass on the way to the QB.

[adam]

He must literally slap a DE on the ass on the way to the QB.

I laughed at that one.

 

[AZ54]

Haven't had a chance to watch the game in slo-mo but intial impression is that Webb was better than Williams. That first impression also included the fact we'll be drafting LT early next year.

[jason]

Haven't had a chance to watch the game in slo-mo but intial impression is that Webb was better than Williams. That first impression also included the fact we'll be drafting LT early next year.

 

Something (i.e. drafting OL) that should have been done last year, again.

[madlithuanian]

Absolutely.

 

Next year's draft, assuming Smith is still on board, will be LB in the 1st. Then I'd hope OL in the 2nd and 3rd, and yet another S in the 4th. Or something like that. Url's situation, the rest of the LB corps, Bears tradition, etc pretty much screams LB regardless of what we all see at OL. My hope is that Emery will go OL in the next 2.

 

Something (i.e. drafting OL) that should have been done last year, again.

 

[rockren]

I laughed at that one.

 

So did I.

 

Mainly because its basically what Williams did!

[jason]

JaMarcus Webb is better than Chris Williams.

 

The ceiling vs floor argument should be over, as Williams floor at LT is immensly low. He doesn't have the quickness, power or leverage to sustain blocks. Sure, he makes less mistakes than Webb, but it's not enough to overcome his shortcomings. Webb wins by default.

 

That being said, we are in desparate need of an LG. Spencer makes too much money to have a roster spot. He takes a paycut or gets cut - IMO. Rachal was a wasted signing and should be cut.

 

Carimi looked much better, with Garza an Louis remaining solid.

 

I have to say, in this make or break year. I go for it and put Williams back at LG as the starter. Then, try to sign a swing tackle if an experienced vet gets cap cut. Or try a late round trade.

 

Lastly, I haven't spoken about our TE's when talking OL, but they have been subpar. Spaeth should not make the team, as I have found him completely useless.

 

Question for you...

 

Do you think Webb outperformed Williams in the first half? If so, I'd challenge you to go back and objectively grade each player on each play they were in the game. By my play-by-play notes, Webb graded out with an even C and Williams graded out with a C+.

 

Since the Giants took out the starters in the second half, it's awfully difficult to grade either in the second half (I haven't seen it yet). And by my count, at least up until the 2nd half of the Giants game, that makes:

 

Game 1: Williams > Webb

Game 2: Williams > Webb

Game 3: Williams > Webb

 

Unless someone is going on feel at the end of several series, a quarter, or a half, I don't see how someone can accurately grade/judge what the players do. And if someone actually looks at each players' performance, Williams should be the starter.

[ChileBear]

Question for you...

 

Do you think Webb outperformed Williams in the first half? If so, I'd challenge you to go back and objectively grade each player on each play they were in the game. By my play-by-play notes, Webb graded out with an even C and Williams graded out with a C+.

 

Since the Giants took out the starters in the second half, it's awfully difficult to grade either in the second half (I haven't seen it yet). And by my count, at least up until the 2nd half of the Giants game, that makes:

 

Game 1: Williams > Webb

Game 2: Williams > Webb

Game 3: Williams > Webb

 

Unless someone is going on feel at the end of several series, a quarter, or a half, I don't see how someone can accurately grade/judge what the players do. And if someone actually looks at each players' performance, Williams should be the starter.

Agree, but the coaches seem hell-bent on Webb. God help us!

[Mongo3451]

Question for you...

 

Do you think Webb outperformed Williams in the first half? If so, I'd challenge you to go back and objectively grade each player on each play they were in the game. By my play-by-play notes, Webb graded out with an even C and Williams graded out with a C+.

 

Since the Giants took out the starters in the second half, it's awfully difficult to grade either in the second half (I haven't seen it yet). And by my count, at least up until the 2nd half of the Giants game, that makes:

 

Game 1: Williams > Webb

Game 2: Williams > Webb

Game 3: Williams > Webb

 

Unless someone is going on feel at the end of several series, a quarter, or a half, I don't see how someone can accurately grade/judge what the players do. And if someone actually looks at each players' performance, Williams should be the starter.

 

I did look at each play, frame by frame. I saw what I saw. If you remember, I was in Williams camp untill last game. Look at it again objectively. I did...

[jason]

I did look at each play, frame by frame. I saw what I saw. If you remember, I was in Williams camp untill last game. Look at it again objectively. I did...

 

I actually did look at it objectively. I graded each play based on the type of play, what the player did, the overall result, whether they got help, etc. If doing so is not objective, then I don't know what objective is.

 

If you think otherwise, which plays turned you the other way? I have an entire spreadsheet of the first half and I'd love to hear which plays were the ones you graded differently.

 

Neither played superbly, but Williams played better than Webb overall.

[DABEARSDABOMB]

I got a feeling Williams may be cut as bad as he looked. This part of the team aint looking good going in the season. A WEAK LEFT SIDE OF OL.Maybe we can pick someone elses camp cuts, and end up being better off. Evan R. looks like he has upside as a TE

I was in Chicago the past few days and there was a lot of talk by the various analysts on the radio that they would not be surprised if Williams was cut. I personally don't see why you would cut him. He's still a swing tackle who can provide depth and as far as I could tell, a passable guard. However, I agree, Webb has won the job (well, he's proven he's the better of the two...which doesn't necessarily say much).

[DABEARSDABOMB]

If Williams can't win a starting job at either position on the line, what purpose does he serve on this roster other than just being another body? He's been a huge disappointment this off-season. He won't get cut, but he is quickly playing his way off the team if his play continues to be like this.

Word on the street was that Williams really dissapointed the Bears this off-season and during camp. He wasn't in shape and really hasn't done what was necessary and that is why there is some talk of him being cut.

[madlithuanian]

Interesting...

 

Word on the street was that Williams really dissapointed the Bears this off-season and during camp. He wasn't in shape and really hasn't done what was necessary and that is why there is some talk of him being cut.

 

[AZ54]

Word on the street was that Williams really dissapointed the Bears this off-season and during camp. He wasn't in shape and really hasn't done what was necessary and that is why there is some talk of him being cut.

 

If anything trade him. The Cardinals have a desperate situation at LT and they'd bite on a trade, probably for more than you might think.

 

The concern I have here is that neither Brown nor Brandon has stood out during preseason. We will find out in the next game if either can be our backup swing tackle and that might decide Chris Williams fate.

[madlithuanian]

As unimpressed as I am with Williams, I think he should be kept as swing. I don't think we can get enough to warrant a trade. We let him walk after the season unless something remarkable transpires.

 

If anything trade him. The Cardinals have a desperate situation at LT and they'd bite on a trade, probably for more than you might think.

 

The concern I have here is that neither Brown nor Brandon has stood out during preseason. We will find out in the next game if either can be our backup swing tackle and that might decide Chris Williams fate.

 

[Mongo3451]

I actually did look at it objectively. I graded each play based on the type of play, what the player did, the overall result, whether they got help, etc. If doing so is not objective, then I don't know what objective is.

 

If you think otherwise, which plays turned you the other way? I have an entire spreadsheet of the first half and I'd love to hear which plays were the ones you graded differently.

 

Neither played superbly, but Williams played better than Webb overall.

Dude, get real.(A spreadsheet, really?) You could have a spreadsheet, flowchart and a powerpoint presentation and you still would be wrong in my opinion. If you went through the entire PDCA process, it's still subject to interpretation. If you grade OL like you grade T.O., the short bus to bias-ville is honking. Of course, that's simply my opinion...

[AZ54]

As unimpressed as I am with Williams, I think he should be kept as swing. I don't think we can get enough to warrant a trade. We let him walk after the season unless something remarkable transpires.

 

I agree, we're better off keeping him but if they are thinking of cutting him then pursue the trade route, they will find something in exchange.

[jason]

Dude, get real.(A spreadsheet, really?) You could have a spreadsheet, flowchart and a powerpoint presentation and you still would be wrong in my opinion. If you went through the entire PDCA process, it's still subject to interpretation. If you grade OL like you grade T.O., the short bus to bias-ville is honking. Of course, that's simply my opinion...

 

Seriously, a spreadsheet. I wanted to be as unbiased as posible and it was the only way I could keep track of each player on the OL over multiple plays. Unless you're freaking Rainman, that's about the only way I could see how someone could truly evaluate every player on the OL for each play. I hit the rewind button the DVR probably a couple hundred times, enough that my wife asked me when I was going to stop watching each play more than 5 times. Why is it that you won't say which plays were the deciding factors? I have a sneaking suspicion that you didn't actually grade each play, and you went on feel at the end of a series, quarter, or half. That's what most people do. But when you break down film, you have to grade each play one at a time. It's kind of like scoring in boxing. If you just go on feel at the end of the match, you could very well miss the fact that a boxer who seems like he lost was actually the winner in terms of rounds.

 

Is it subject to interpretation? Absolutely. But I'm curious about how you interpreted the plays. I'm curious how anyone who actually looked at each player's performance on a play-by-play basis could say that Webb did better than Williams. Maybe I missed something. Maybe you missed something. That's the whole point of asking about the plays, to see which play(s) is the source of disagreement.

 

As for the short-bus, I believe you're probably driving if you think my external belief in TO's ability (and not his baggage) has anything to do with game-tape, play-by-play evalution.

[Mongo3451]

Seriously, a spreadsheet. I wanted to be as unbiased as posible and it was the only way I could keep track of each player on the OL over multiple plays. Unless you're freaking Rainman, that's about the only way I could see how someone could truly evaluate every player on the OL for each play. I hit the rewind button the DVR probably a couple hundred times, enough that my wife asked me when I was going to stop watching each play more than 5 times. Why is it that you won't say which plays were the deciding factors? I have a sneaking suspicion that you didn't actually grade each play, and you went on feel at the end of a series, quarter, or half. That's what most people do. But when you break down film, you have to grade each play one at a time. It's kind of like scoring in boxing. If you just go on feel at the end of the match, you could very well miss the fact that a boxer who seems like he lost was actually the winner in terms of rounds.

 

Is it subject to interpretation? Absolutely. But I'm curious about how you interpreted the plays. I'm curious how anyone who actually looked at each player's performance on a play-by-play basis could say that Webb did better than Williams. Maybe I missed something. Maybe you missed something. That's the whole point of asking about the plays, to see which play(s) is the source of disagreement.

 

As for the short-bus, I believe you're probably driving if you think my external belief in TO's ability (and not his baggage) has anything to do with game-tape, play-by-play evalution.

Sorry, I don't have specific plays documented. However, I did look at every play, as I stated previously, frame by frame. We've discussed strengths and weaknesses at great length. At this point, I dont know what else to say, other than what I already have.

 

SIDE NOTE: See my comments on the TO post again and you'll find my reasons for him not making it were talent related.