Back to Fixing the OL 1st...

[Mongo3451]

This off-season my biggest cry was to fix the OL 1st. It was addressed in a big way with Williams, but has been ignored otherwise with a huge void in OG play. With our current situation playing out...

 

I’m calling it like I see it with the OL:

 

1)Turnover - we have lost 40% of an underachieving unit that must play as a whole to be successful.

 

2)Durability – Williams out 10 days and counting, Metcalf is getting fluid drained from his knees, Kruetz has an achilles problem, Garza OK but missing an ACL.

 

3)Continuity – We are going into our 1st pre-season game and our 1st rounder has failed to take a snap with the team in TC, our swing tackle is our best L-OG and getting no work in at it. Add to that, Tait is playing RT for the 1st time in a couple of years and must adjust.

 

4)Talent – Williams (who knows), Metcalf (sucks), Kreutz (aging), Garza (average) and Tait (aging)

 

Continuity is the most important thing we are lacking at this. Without this your QB and running game is dead. Turner will again have to dummy down the offense to “max” protect the QB. This will in turn put an extra defender in the box. I also believe we are below average on talent.(that’s with everyone healthy).

 

If the season started tomorrow, we’d be screwed! This is why Orton will be our starting QB opening day. Because even though we a month to get it together, that is not enough time to get it together the right way. Orton will provide a safer plan while the OL is hopefully gelling. I can see us making a play for additional help within the next several days. If not, I’m afraid this years offense stands to be worse than last. Thus ending the career of Lovie and Turner in Chicago. Keep your fingers crossed that JA has a plan up his sleeve.

[BearSox]

Hopefully Williams gets healthy quick and claims that LT spot. If that happens, we can then move St. Clair to LG, and have a some-what decent line. A left side of the line with St. Clair and Metcalf is just plain scary. Whoever our QB would be better have great instincts to their backside, cause guys would be breaking through all the time.

[nfoligno]

Problem is, or one of the problems at least, that we moved forward w/ (IMHO) plans based on best possible scenarios taking place.

 

- We assume a rookie can start at LT.

- We assume Tait can move back to RT.

- We assume St. Clair can play LG.

- We assume no injuries. We plan on our #3 OT starting at OG, and do not have an OG worthy to step in if a starter goes down.

 

If everything goes according to plan, things look great. But when you assume so much, it is bound to collapse like a house of cards. A rookie at LT was potentially the biggest questionable assumption, and look at the domino effect. The guy we planned to start at LG has now had to move outside to LT. We look like crap at LG now because we had no depth. Our backup center is now getting time at LG, which hurts all the more w/ Kreutz recent injuries.

 

Often I read excuses about how we lost due to injury, but good teams prepare for injuries. Sure, you can rack up so many injuries that no preparation would matter, but this situation is not even close. If our OL sucks this year, we have only ourselves to blame.

[Clenched_CLAW]

This off-season my biggest cry was to fix the OL 1st.

 

JA would seem to have disagreed.

 

 

I can see us making a play for additional help within the next several days. If not, I’m afraid this years offense stands to be worse than last. Thus ending the career of Lovie and Turner in Chicago. Keep your fingers crossed that JA has a plan up his sleeve.

 

First, I'd like to believe that if Lovie goes, so does JA; their fates should be tied in Chicago.

 

We all know what happens if the defense is forced to remain on the field the majority of each game.

 

Chris Williams being drafted to play LOT and moving Tait to ROT is a great move.

The plan unravels when you expect your swing Tackle to move to LOG AND be available if your rookie LOT is unable to play.

 

Great.

 

I truly question the idea to use St. Clair as a starter. Did he actually improve to the level of starter or is it desperation?

Also, is St. Clair the best mentor/supporter for a rookie LOT?

 

What about R. Brown? He was playing like an NFL Caliber LOG until his arm fell off. Is he really a worse option than Metcalf or musical St. Clair?

 

As for Beekman, his best position projected to be center and he should continue to learn that position.

 

Garza has some decent back-ups in Oakley and Reed.

 

Tait has the aspiring Cody Balogh as his back-up.

 

 

As for the O-Line, the lack of planning and leadership from the coaches and FO is threatening the success of the entire team.

Mongo, I hope your vision is correct because the O-Line REALLY needs some additional help.

[nfoligno]

Something truly pathetic about all this is how we have other offenses pieces in place, but how the hell are those pieces supposed to do jack w/o an OL.

 

QB - Rex? Orton? No clue if either are worth jack at this point, but what does their outlook look like w/o an OL?

 

RB - So we draft a RB who we love. We feel he is going to be the steal of the draft. He will be the franchise RB Benson never was. But we stick him behind this OL? LT would struggle behind our OL.

 

WR - We have a franchise player in Hester, who we desparately want to develop. How can we develop him though if the OL can't protect the QB long enough for a WR to run his route? Bennett? Bradley?

 

TE - So we have a 1st round pick TE. One of his top assets is his ability to get deep in the secondary. He can use speed against LBs and size against DBs. But like w/ the WRs troubles, w/ an OL, he is going to be relegated to blocking and dump off passes.

 

So we have made an effort to add weapons, and hope to develop those weapons, but did not build an OL which will allow us to do so.

 

Say you want to build a house. You pick out some beautiful, expensive windows (energy effecient) and spend extra for the upgraded roof. Then you build the walls of the house out of cardboard. That about seems like the logic of this team.

[madlithuanian]

X takes a square! Your assessment there is truly spot on!

 

I think I've inherently felt that, but never saw it clearer than when you put it down in words. I really do feel like team like NE and PIT prepare for worst case scenarios, whereas the Bears seem to be drinking the kool aid that the best case will happen.

 

Problem is, or one of the problems at least, that we moved forward w/ (IMHO) plans based on best possible scenarios taking place.

 

- We assume a rookie can start at LT.

- We assume Tait can move back to RT.

- We assume St. Clair can play LG.

- We assume no injuries. We plan on our #3 OT starting at OG, and do not have an OG worthy to step in if a starter goes down.

 

If everything goes according to plan, things look great. But when you assume so much, it is bound to collapse like a house of cards. A rookie at LT was potentially the biggest questionable assumption, and look at the domino effect. The guy we planned to start at LG has now had to move outside to LT. We look like crap at LG now because we had no depth. Our backup center is now getting time at LG, which hurts all the more w/ Kreutz recent injuries.

 

Often I read excuses about how we lost due to injury, but good teams prepare for injuries. Sure, you can rack up so many injuries that no preparation would matter, but this situation is not even close. If our OL sucks this year, we have only ourselves to blame.

[bowlingtwig]

I agree that the Oline is just plain scary. I don't like reading in the paper in the injured section and seeing all those people missing time from the Oline play in particular especially Chris Williams. We have so much hope in him and he got hurt the 2nd day of camp doesn't help.

[selection7]

We've had enough O-line cast offs go on to be other team's starters to know that our O-line players are typically at least NFL quality. In years past we've had a solid O-line on paper and it didn't work out so it wouldn't surprise me if our questionable talent rose to the occassion...the opposite basically. Anyway, it 's true it's looking pretty rough, but you wouldn't appreciate the wins if it always seemed to come easy.

[balta1701-A]

So, here's the 2 questions I have.

 

1. Let's say Williams misses the first couple weeks. How bad of a wound is that? Is that something recoverable?

2. What other moves could the Bears have made to avoid this circumstance? Was there an O-Lineman out there at a reasonable price that someone else signed that the Bears should have picked up? Or should the Bears have sacrificed one of Harris, Urlacher, or Hester to get the cap room to go after a higher priced guy? Or not drafted Forte in the 2nd or that WR in the 3rd and focused on the OLine instead?

 

Also, aren't there still options available on the market if Williams can't go?

[nfoligno]

1. Let's say Williams misses the first couple weeks. How bad of a wound is that? Is that something recoverable?

 

W/o his missing more time, I am already wondering about his injury. Around the draft, rumors of back problems surfaced. Lovie is known for downplaying injuries. Finally, w/ each week that passes due to his "day to day" injury, you simply can't help but to wonder.

 

2. What other moves could the Bears have made to avoid this circumstance? Was there an O-Lineman out there at a reasonable price that someone else signed that the Bears should have picked up? Or should the Bears have sacrificed one of Harris, Urlacher, or Hester to get the cap room to go after a higher priced guy? Or not drafted Forte in the 2nd or that WR in the 3rd and focused on the OLine instead?

 

One. Yes, I would say there were other OL available who were not massively expensive. Damn if I can recall today, but I believe there was the guy from SD (reports of drugs were bogus) and I think Smiley. There were others who could be had w/o breaking the bank. No, they were not studs, but at least better than Metcalf.

 

Two. I do not believe we had to sacrifice Harris, Urlacher or Hester if we wanted a high priced FA. Now I might have held off on a couple other smaller deals (Clark and Brown for example) but it could have been done. You simply have to be a tad creative in the working of the contracts. I am NOT talking about going out and acting like Wash, and adding every high priced FA on the market, but I disagree w/ the idea we could not enter the market and add one.

 

Three. Yea, my draft would have looked different. Not to say OL I drafted would have worked out, and maybe I would have missed on some damn nice talent, but I would have simply drafted more OL. Let's throw out Forte in the 2nd. We were sold on him, and it was a need. After Forte, I think the bears started looking more at value, but IMHO, simply do not value OL very highly, thus why there are always other positions considered best available over OL.

 

Bennett - Solid prospect I like. No question. But how great of a talent is Bennett, and how great of a dropoff was there after him. Maybe there was such a drop. You can definitely argue the need at WR. But, again, while I like Bennett, I am not sure he brings so much to the table that he couldn't be passed on. In the 3rd round, we took Bennett and Harrison. Two solid prospects. But there were also numerous solid OT and OG prospects available. Once again, we simply choose any position other than OL.

 

W/o going round by round, player by player, the point I think is, we took an OT in the 1st, and then passed on OL until the 7th round. We were picking 2nd and 3rd string players while a starting position on the OL was still in question, and the depth on the OL was worse than any other position. If this were the only year, fine. But since Angelo has joined the team, when has he shown in the draft any legit respect for the OL? The OL (starting and depth) has pretty much been a high need since Angelo joined the team, and yet every draft he seems unaware. Yea, he drafts an OL here and there, but never w/ a committment, IMHO. He absolutely seems committed to filling the DL and LB units 10 deep each. But while we draft DL and LBs who are destined for special teams, OL pass threw our fingers.

 

Also, aren't there still options available on the market if Williams can't go?

 

R.Brown and Bently are often mentioned. I was shocked by something I read today that Angelo or Lovie said. When asked about the problems on the OL, he said something to the extent that we have some typical camp injuries and are not panicking. He went on to say he knows Brown is out there, and knows what Brown has to offer, but that we are simply not there yet.

 

Sorry, but how arrogant. What, day before the season begins you think you can give him a call and he will be there? And he will be 100%? Williams has missed two weeks, and I have heard little to make me believe he is close to putting the pads on. And we are not talking about Kreutz, who can afford to miss some time. We are talking about a rookie looking to start at LT. A tough enough task in itself. Metcalf is likely done for the preseason. Our left side is flat out ugly. What exactly are we waiting for? Oakley to be injured?

[Mongo3451]

Sorry, but how arrogant. What, day before the season begins you think you can give him a call and he will be there? And he will be 100%? Williams has missed two weeks, and I have heard little to make me believe he is close to putting the pads on. And we are not talking about Kreutz, who can afford to miss some time. We are talking about a rookie looking to start at LT. A tough enough task in itself. Metcalf is likely done for the preseason. Our left side is flat out ugly. What exactly are we waiting for? Oakley to be injured?

Amen! We were arrogant when we didn't go after Brees when we should have. Arrogant when we traded TJ away in favor an unproven prick. This year, we all cried OL and we were too arrogant to 1) spend on Faneca, 2) draft more talent on day one. We signed our own, I was really proud of that. But, at what cost? Looks to be this season. We will undoubtedly have the worst OL in football. Thus wearing our defense down for another season, averaging 3 yards per carry and still not knowing if we have a QB that can play football. My cry in the off-season was fix the OL 1st. WTF do I know. Sorry for the rant, I'm just f'n pissed right now.

[jason]

Something truly pathetic about all this is how we have other offenses pieces in place, but how the hell are those pieces supposed to do jack w/o an OL.

 

QB - Rex? Orton? No clue if either are worth jack at this point, but what does their outlook look like w/o an OL?

 

RB - So we draft a RB who we love. We feel he is going to be the steal of the draft. He will be the franchise RB Benson never was. But we stick him behind this OL? LT would struggle behind our OL.

 

WR - We have a franchise player in Hester, who we desparately want to develop. How can we develop him though if the OL can't protect the QB long enough for a WR to run his route? Bennett? Bradley?

 

TE - So we have a 1st round pick TE. One of his top assets is his ability to get deep in the secondary. He can use speed against LBs and size against DBs. But like w/ the WRs troubles, w/ an OL, he is going to be relegated to blocking and dump off passes.

 

So we have made an effort to add weapons, and hope to develop those weapons, but did not build an OL which will allow us to do so.

 

Say you want to build a house. You pick out some beautiful, expensive windows (energy effecient) and spend extra for the upgraded roof. Then you build the walls of the house out of cardboard. That about seems like the logic of this team.

 

Please refer to my tagline for confirmation of this belief. We will never know what we have on offense as long as the OL is questionable to bad. There is relatively unknown talent at RB, WR, and TE with question marks still remaining at QB as well. Of course, you and I were two of the few who thought it would be a smart move to go OL, OL, OL with the first three picks.

[Bears4Ever_34]

Offensive lineman always have problems with injuries but for a rookie to get one this serious without even playing a game yet (And maybe not even 2-3 practices) is very alarming. I was not opposed to drafting Chris with our first round pick, I know what we needed, but whatever.. It is what it is.

[Mongo3451]

name='Bears4Ever_34' date='Aug 8 2008, 02:10 AM' post='43238']

Offensive lineman always have problems with injuries but for a rookie to get one this serious without even playing a game yet (And maybe not even 2-3 practices) is very alarming. I was not opposed to drafting Chris with our first round pick, I know what we needed, but whatever.. It is what it is.

What amazes me is, they are still trying to bullshit us over the severity of the injury both pre-draft and now. It is completely making JA and Lovie look like either complete moron or the unluckiest guys on the face of the earth. Here are some exerpts and a link. You decide who's telling the truth or lying. I for one am weary...

 

 

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/mulligan/10...mully08.article

 

A team spokesman said the injury was not a pre-existing condition but a new problem that occurred in the first hour of the team's second practice of training camp, their first in pads.

 

That news was met with skepticism by at least three scouts among the 21 in attendance at the game who claimed their teams had taken the player off their draft board because of medical concerns.

 

''I heard that on the radio,'' one scout said. ''Why are they lying about it? You know it will all come out.''

Said another: ''Our doctors said the guy would need to do something. I guess they were right.''

 

The Bears said Williams missed some practices as a freshman at Vanderbilt because of a back injury.

General manager Jerry Angelo was adamant that the back injury is new.

 

''What the doctors told me, this was a new injury,'' Angelo said. ''He had injured his back approximately three years ago. He missed two or three days of practice. He had no symptoms of any kind of herniation when that injury occurred. He had no missed time in the last three years, so it's a new injury. It's unfortunate.''

 

Bears coach Lovie Smith said the same thing in his postgame remarks.

''We don't know anything about that,'' Smith said of Williams falling on other team's draft boards. ''He wasn't falling off ours. This injury, from what I am told, isn't a pre-existing injury, so that is what we're going with. Injuries happen in camp, and you go from there. We were unlucky a little bit with this, but Chris will be OK and we'll go from there.''

 

The Bears insist Williams will return this season, but there is no timetable, only word that he'll remain on the 53-man roster so he can come back.

 

''That is a very serious injury for a lineman,'' one scout said. ''I would be more worried about his career than this season.''

[Pixote]

I hear scouts saying this was pre-existing. This does not make sense.

 

Yes, he had a minor back injury his freshman year in college. He missed a practice or two but no games from what I understand.

 

He then went on to start 33 consecutive games, not missing any time do to injury in practices or games, all at LOT. Now if this was a pre-existing condition - a herniated disc - how in the he** do you play 33 games and never miss a beat?

 

Maybe we should give the Bears the benefit of the doubt. I am sure if Angelo had any inkling Williams would have injury problems with his back, he would not have drafted him.

[Connorbear]

I hear scouts saying this was pre-existing. This does not make sense.

 

Yes, he had a minor back injury his freshman year in college. He missed a practice or two but no games from what I understand.

 

He then went on to start 33 consecutive games, not missing any time do to injury in practices or games, all at LOT. Now if this was a pre-existing condition - a herniated disc - how in the he** do you play 33 games and never miss a beat?

 

Maybe we should give the Bears the benefit of the doubt. I am sure if Angelo had any inkling Williams would have injury problems with his back, he would not have drafted him.

I am willing to give the Bears the benefit of the doubt but this is worst case scenario. I cannot imagine Williams will have an impact this yr as he will have had no practice reps. I bet he ends up on IR.

 

Peace

[ChileBear]

I am willing to give the Bears the benefit of the doubt but this is worst case scenario. I cannot imagine Williams will have an impact this yr as he will have had no practice reps. I bet he ends up on IR.

 

Peace

Agree Connorbear. This could rally doom the O. If someone else goes down we may need to convert a DL to the OL. Man, how many of us screamed about the OL in the offseason and on draft day?

[nfoligno]

Please refer to my tagline for confirmation of this belief. We will never know what we have on offense as long as the OL is questionable to bad. There is relatively unknown talent at RB, WR, and TE with question marks still remaining at QB as well. Of course, you and I were two of the few who thought it would be a smart move to go OL, OL, OL with the first three picks.

 

As I recall, we were flat out ridiculed for that belief. Is it a tag line we slap at the bottom of our posts? I recall throwing down my mock draft, and I think 90% of my picks were OL. It was an exaggeration, but not by much.

 

We see eye to eye on this one. We potentially have some good WRs. We potentially have a couple good RBs. We potentially have very good TEs. How the hell are we to find out though, much less develop that young talent, w/o an OL.

[nfoligno]

Amen! We were arrogant when we didn't go after Brees when we should have. Arrogant when we traded TJ away in favor an unproven prick. This year, we all cried OL and we were too arrogant to 1) spend on Faneca, 2) draft more talent on day one. We signed our own, I was really proud of that. But, at what cost? Looks to be this season. We will undoubtedly have the worst OL in football. Thus wearing our defense down for another season, averaging 3 yards per carry and still not knowing if we have a QB that can play football. My cry in the off-season was fix the OL 1st. WTF do I know. Sorry for the rant, I'm just f'n pissed right now.

 

Hey man. Don't ever apologize for ranting or venting. IMHO, that is a key function of the board. At least, I have used it as such:)

 

One thing you touch on which I have been blasted for in the past. You talk about our signing our own, which you applaud, but question the cost. For years I hear about how Angelo is among the best salary cap managers in the league. I have always had a problem w/ that. Do we stay under the cap? Yes. But is that really the sign of good cap management? If you are spending your money to re-sign your own players, who formed a losing team, are you really doing a good job managing the cap. I like many of our players, but what we have isn't getting it done.

 

Now if we went into the season and found a way to keep our own, while also adding a solid veteran FA (like maybe Faneca), then I would be more prone to giving Angelo credit. Then he is keeping in-house talent, while adding to the team. But simply keeping your own players at the expense of adding players who could help improve your team is not what I call great cap management.

[Da Bears 88]

I wonder if we could get Jimbo Covert & Keith Van Horne out of retirement.

[Lucky Luciano]

I wonder if we could get Jimbo Covert & Keith Van Horne out of retirement.

 

Longjohn Silver gets my vote. his pirating spin moves on a peg leg would be much smoother than miller's bullfighting spin techniques.

 

thanks for the depth angelo. when you have to consider bringing back a dinosaur who nobody else even considered in the offseason, because he plays like crap at this point in his career, and you consider him better than any offensive lineman we currently have on our roster it is totally unbelievable.

 

miller? uhhgg, i think i'm going to be sick.

[madlithuanian]

I could swear it's time for a regime change...

 

I'm jumping to conclusions, but dang...it reeks.

 

Longjohn Silver gets my vote. his pirating spin moves on a peg leg would be much smoother than miller's bullfighting spin techniques.

 

thanks for the depth angelo. when you have to consider bringing back a dinosaur who nobody else even considered in the offseason, because he plays like crap at this point in his career, and you consider him better than any offensive lineman we currently have on our roster it is totally unbelievable.

 

miller? uhhgg, i think i'm going to be sick.

[GakMan23]

I could swear it's time for a regime change...

 

I'm jumping to conclusions, but dang...it reeks.

 

 

starting to get that same Wanny feeling myself...

[madlithuanian]

Seeing Kramer announcing doesn't make it easier! (He is a bad announcer...) THose guys were rambling on about useless stuff and making errors all game long.

 

starting to get that same Wanny feeling myself...

[GrizzlyBear]

I think the best thing we could do is Sign Lecharles Bently and put him at left guard, Move St. Clair to right tackle and bring tait back left. Instant huge improvement. For insurance sign Brown as well.