DrunkBomber

dont forget a safety

I dont need to reiterate my hatred of Ortons game but this sums it up. He is a joke.

I retract what I said about smashing you after Steelers D and Mendenhall put up 61 when you were down 58 lol, but I still like the trade.

Because you initially said you were just posting the trade to see what other people thought of it but then you also put spin on the side you wanted to agree with. So essentially you werent asking for objective opinions, you were trying to make them agree with you without giving them all of the facts. Once they got all of the facts I havent seen anyone say it was a bad trade.

You dodged this question again. Can someone not in our league look at your post and make a fair conclusion without knowing the rosters of the teams involved, scoring and number of starters we use?

When you listed this trade up here to get peoples opinions on you left out so much information because you wanted people to agree with you. The reason Im angry is because youre calling me a cheater and the league has money on the line. If you were honestly trying to see what people thought why wouldnt you post both rosters, scoring values and list the number of starters each team plays each week? Isnt that pretty important? Both people involved in the trade didnt have much value in Slaton. Just because you do doesnt make you right. I know how many points Slaton has and he also just got benched and only got 6 carries this week because he fumbles too much. I dont care how many points they currently have, I care how many I think they are going to get in the future. Westbrooks and Slatons numbers are so irrelevant in this trade and everyone should realize why. I also said I wasnt really high on Manningham but he was a throw in to give the guy depth to balance the trade out but he still has good numbers regardless. It all comes down to how people value each player and not everyones going to be the same. I obviously value Westbrook more than you and you obviously value Slaton more than me but its my trade so your values mean nothing. I actually think the values you put on some of these guys is ridiculous. You tried to make it sound like Beanie Wells is someone who is going to do something in FF. Yahoo projected the players I gave up to score more points than the ones I got for the rest of the season. So no matter where either of us value these guys there are experts that think the four guys I gave up are more valuable AND will score more. I dont put too much stock in those projections normally but Im using it as an example to show that if this trade was as lopsided as you initially tried to make it sound then nobody would project my guys to score more, let alone experts that work for the site that hosts our league. The other guy involved is only 2 games behind you for a playoff spot btw and just won by almost 100 points , its not like hes tanking his season. If that was the case I wouldnt have given up the caliber of players I did and destroy my bench to get AJ. Again, at this point what you have already said makes me realize what kind of guy you are and that you are a sore loser and a whiner. I didnt need FF to see that either. Anyone on these forums has seen you bitch and moan about something at some point. Im not going to overlook you calling me a cheater in a league where money is involved because you think you know what these players values are more than me, the other team involved and yahoo. You went to the extreme of making this thread and put such a bullshit spin on everything to make me look like a cheater. Thats a shady/jag off thing to do and it was very easy to expose and good luck the rest of the way, youre going to need it.

Before you threw your perspective into it only one person said it wasnt fair and he isnt in the league and one person said it was fair. After you worded everything again to make it sound worse flea agreed with you. How in gods name can someone evaluate this trade without looking at the rosters of the two teams? This trade made both teams better plain and simple. It was very obvious what your intentions were with this thread and Im not going to be accused of cheating by someone who is bitter. Your evaluations of the players I traded a way are a complete joke and you made it sound like I got four studs in exchange for nothing because you want people to agree with you. This is a PPC league that also includes return yards. Westbrook is coming back this week. In a PPC league he is an elite player. He very easily can score just as many, if not more, points than AJ on any given week. Hes not some bum that isnt coming back this season and is garbage, he was a game time decision this week and ended up sitting out but will be back. If you dont put a lot of value on Westbrook thats your problem because a lot of people know how valuable he is and what he is capable of doing in the second half of the season. Breaston is the number two WR in Arizona now AND he returns punts. Boldins relationship with ARI is falling apart and without question Breaston is the one who is going to benefit from it the most. Look what he has done over the course of his career when Fitz or Boldin are out. Boldin had just over 20 points this week. Do you think Boldins status wasnt discussed when negotiating the trade? Breaston is going to be a solid number 2 WR in FF and right on the cusp of being a number one. Without Boldin in Fit will see more double coverage, especially after what he did to the Bears, and Breaston is going to get a ton of targets. Bush returns kicks, gets some carries and now is starting to play WR. He had 7 catches this week. He is a good fantasy player and can get points lots of different ways. Oh, BTW he outscored Slaton this week, who got like 6 carries. Also, this wasnt a surprise to me. I much rather would have Reggie Bush but then the other guy wouldnt have accepted the trade, he initially wanted Ricky Williams instead which I turned down. Manningham has had a very good year so far as well. He has 112 fantasy points which you dismissed pretty easily. Ill admit, Im not that high on him but I know he will get some targets every week and so far this year he has been putting up very good fantasy numbers. He was basically thrown in because I wouldnt give up Ricky Williams and because of that Beanie Wells was thrown in to keep rosters even. AJ doesnt need an explanation, thats why I was willing to give up what I did for him. Slaton. This guy was being shopped to everyone in the league because of him getting benched. I basically needed him as a body if I lost Bush because I would have no running backs left. I never looked at Slaton as a big piece of what I was getting. I dont put much value on him and neither did the guy trading him. He was on the trading block and was being shopped around so if you think he is that good you should have made a play for him (Ill trade him very easily) Both of us wanted Bush over him and I had to give him up to make him agree. Beanie Wells was thrown in as I said to balance rosters. The guy has done nothing, is on a team that doesnt run much and isnt even the starting running back. He is basically worthless in our league. For you to try and say he added any value to the trade proves that either you have an agenda or you dont know the values of players in FF. As far as his upside. Im not holding my breath on him turning into Michael Turner in the next few weeks. Im not starting an NFL franchise here hoping he may develop in the offseason, Im in a FF league where the playoffs start in a few weeks. You want him too? Make me an offer because you obviously put more value on him than well...anybody Berrian is a decent FF WR but his value goes down in PPC leagues. Hes without question the least valuable WR involved in the trade and for you to compare him to Breaston is hilarious. Breaston and Manningham have both scored more than Berrian and are going to continue to. Berrian will get you decent points one week and zero points the next. Hes a risky play every week and I would much rather have either of the other 2 I gave up. I will have to play him because of all I gave up some weeks but it hurts my team. Again this is a PPC league with return yards where there are THREE flex players so all or most of these guys will be playing for both teams most weeks. Take AJ and Westbrook out of the equation. Which team do you think will get more production of the other players involved in the trade? Im sure most people will think the other guy will, especially considering I wont be using one of the guys I got (Wells) ever. Is Andre Johnson so much better than Brian Westbrook that its not worth the extra production you will get from the other three players? Is it not possible Westbrook can come back this week and outscore AJ alone? Im not even going to get into the rosters of both teams because any of the league members can see them but that also has to be taken into account. Theres a reason why he could afford to give up AJ and theres reasons why he needed to add some better depth to his team. This isnt a black and white trade. It took a while to agree on it because we placed different values on different players. Also, yes, this trade was done with my friend which wasnt a secret. It is impossible to negotiate trades through Yahoo because all you get offered is three garbage players for a stud and none of the offers are legit. You need to talk to people, look at both rosters and figure out a way to make it work for both teams which is exactly what we did. He will have three wins after this week and is only two games out of playoffs. He also put up almost 200 points this week and got more from what I gave him than I got in return and that is without Westbrook. This was why I posted about the trade of mine that was vetoed last season because it was so lopsided with me getting ripped off and in the end I would have ended up getting the deal of the season and made a great trade because of what I projected TO and Royal to do last year came to fruition but it got vetoed by people like you who cant look past anything and wont let anyone roll the dice if you dont agree on the value of the players. Bottom line the trade was extremely fair. I havent looked at the other trades in the league but I would easily say by the end of the year it will be the most balanced trade and will make both teams better. You left out all of the variables in the trade, accused me of cheating and waited until I played you to mention it instead of vetoing it or bringing it up before. I understand why people dont like trades like this because A. people value players differently and B. it makes both teams better and why would anyone want two teams to improve?

Lol, I also just noticed you are the guru I hammered the shit out of this week. This trade went through days ago, its ironic you waited until after you were losing to cry. Looks like I could have had AJ on the bench and still beat you. So to recap, the only person who complained about the trade was the person who lost their matchup to the team and he waited days until AFTER he lost to say anything. WAY TO GO! Also, other team involved in trade has almost 200 points and is winning by 92 points behind a big game from Breaston and solid numbers from Manningham.

From pay league through talkbears last year when 7 idiots vetoed my trade of TO for Royal and Derrick Ward. (Royal alone outscored TO and Ward was 1000 yard rusher with a 200 yard game during playoff time. Heres what people LIKE you said: All you do is whine and you have no legs to stand on with this trade. If you break it down its very even with the potential of what I gave away being more valuable. Look what Westbrook did last year AFTER he came back from an injury. Every year there is some idiot who thinks he is a fantasy football guru and thinks his opinion on players is reality. I dont make trades based on what YOU think the players are worth. Yahoo, thinks the trade favored the other team but obviously youre not on their staff so what do they know. Accusing someone of cheating is pretty serious and thats what youre doing. So let me sum it up by saying, you dont know shit, shut up and if you dont like it you had a week to veto it (which not one person did) So if anyone (IN THE LEAGUE) would like me to very easily explain why this trade made sense for both teams I will but if you are going to try and suede people with bullshit than maybe include things like the number of flex players in the league, who was on the rosters of the teams already and stuff like that. Both teams are better after the trade (which is absolutely why you are crying) and both teams hammered their opponents this week in the league.

I like the way you tried to word it to make it sound the way you wanted but if you look at both of the roster involved: Team A All depth, , only 1 stud at WR/RB (Welker) and a lot of guys worthy of #2 spots and only room for some of them to play every week. Team B Top heavy with no depth and not much of a bench or flexibility with match ups to move guys around AJ- stud, no question Westbrook- monster in ppc leagues who was injured but was supposed to be back this week and will be back next week. When healthy is more valuable than AJ alone and is on a team making a playoff run Bush- solid flex player in a ppc league and second most valuable RB involved in the trade at this point Slaton- on trading block and was being offered to everyone in league because he picked up moats. Was and is currently benched and really had no impact on me wanting the trade. Him being thrown in made no difference to me Beanie Wells- seriously? Manningham- definite starting caliber WR with very good numbers so far Breaston- 2nd most valuable WR in trade and is a on the verge of becoming a stud because of Boldin situation. Look at today. Berrian- decent wr, without question not as good as two above him youre trying to suede people with the way you word everything but the trade was very fair. You dont make trades based on what the guy has done to that point you make them based on what they are poised to do after. I basically gave up all my depth at RB and 2 starting WRs for 1 player with hopes I can get anything out of Slaton even though he cant be depended on going forward. Yahoo projected the players I gave away to outscore what I got in return also. This is a very deep league with three flex positions and there isnt anything in FA to fill rosters. I shouldnt have to go through and explain why guys like Breaton and Westbrook are valuable for the second half of the season but if you would like to I can.

I think we have different definition of burners.

We are not a speed team at all. We have two fast WRs and thats about the extent of our speed. We dont have a speed running back and our defense is insanely slow. If the grass really makes a difference than it would help us tremendously.

I agree with a lot of this. I also think a lot of the jobs Lovie has done with mediocre talent are overlooked. The past few years weve went on stretches where we had Orton and AP starting together, Booker as our number 1 WR and devastating injuries all over the field and have always been relevant. While I do think Lovie gets a bad rap for some things he does, I do think he needs to be less stubborn with the Tampa 2 because we dont have the personnel to run it and Cincy exposed it. The key to beating Arizona is defensive pass rush. If we can get to Warner and rattle him we should win. I think Tillman is a good matchup for Fitzgerald and their running backs arent anything that will kill us. Theyll get some nice gains with some underneath passes but I think we limit the big plays. I also think Cutler has a big game because of the balance of their run/pass D statistically, despite last week. Ill be at the game so I hope this is how it goes down. Id also love to get Cowher here in the worst way. I would say it would never happen but Jay Cutler is here.

These come out about once every three seasons but after this game I think I want to vent/evaluate where I see the team. First: Brian Urlacher. There is a lot of hate for him and a lot of people thinking he isnt needed or we can do with out him. IMO, he is the best linebacker in the cover 2/Tampa 2 in the game and possibly ever (for the current scheme we run). He isnt replaceable and I think people overlook what he does in pass defense in the middle of the field. When he is done, our Tampa 2 is done, Lovie is done and we are starting over. Defense: In a lot of trouble. Lance Briggs is a top 10 defensive player in the league, but after that we are hurting. We have a few guys who are serviceable; Tillman, Ogun. Brown, Bowman (as nickle or dime) but other than that were hosed. Im hoping Gaines can come in and fill a void for us and if he can he was worth the draft pick. Other than that, we need a FS, 2 DTs and a corner or two desperately. A healthy Urlacher allows us to gamble on Pisas health( he looked great when healthy) or even try to develop a guy or use HH. I think we should CUT Harris. Let me preface by saying, I un understand how the salary cap works and I normally dont jump to extremes but Tommie is untradeable and will never be the same. If we cut him we take a hit for one year (possibly uncapped) and can wash our hands of him and his contract. Let Ogun and any other free agent walk and use every penny we can on some new personnel. We need some speed on our defense and we also need smart players. Adrian Peterson, Aaron Rodgers, Calvin Johnson, Greg Jennings and Percy Harvin are all guys we are going to have to deal with for years so we better bring in players that can stop them. I also think Lovie needs to do a better job calling plays based on who is on the field. Today we had no pass rush, no rush defense and no pass coverage. Its not working. I will do offense later

Anyone interested in a 15 confidence pool? Its all done online and right now we have about 13 people. If you are PM me

The Bears number one need is secondary

It should have said "Im in a contract year bitches"

As long as its not bobby wade

I think everyone is supposed to wear pink this game.

The WRs performance, besides Hester were the downfall of the offense. While Cutler looked bad, his WRs were clueless.

I didnt read through all the bickering but I also heard Bowman is starting at corner over Vasher.

Did you think thats what kind of QB Cutler was? He is a risk taker, he hates taking sacks and forces passes sometimes. Anyone who has seen him play knows this and this is what he did last night. I wasnt thrilled with his performance but he showed what he can do on some drives in the second half. The route running was atrocious and I want to know why Olsen is playing fullback and not being used in the passing game more. Cutler has no bailout WR like he had with Marshall and was forcing passes to Earl Bennett. If we can get 1 legit number one WR it would make such a difference. I am really impressed with Hester and think he would be an amazing slot WR. He had that nice long catch, that really good catch on the sideline and looks like a legit WR. I was also impressed with Knox considering his experience. His route running wasnt too great but he was productive and should only get better. Bennett also looked pretty good at times and should improve as he gets experience.

Cutler made some bad decisions but its painfully evident we need help at WR. A few drops and terrible route running. Hes trying to make Earl Bennett a bailout WR and force passes when hes in trouble. He needs some consistency from hid weapons and he needs to make better decisions.

They were talking about this on NFL Sirius this week. They had Dom Capers on and asked him what they were going to do with Greg Olsen if Kampman is supposed to cover him. He said if it got bad they would have the safeties help and the first thing Adam Shine said after that was "and leave Hester one on one against your corners?"

Easy, yes.