DrunkBomber

LOL, well Ill tell you what, if we could sign Barber from Dallas, thats the route I would want to go.

That might be your opinion, but you have to realize that there are experts here that bring up a good point. Grossman has been figured out since the second half of the Super Bowl year and hes a one trick pony, and that, and that alone proves why Grossmans qb rating got significantly better at the end of the season. It might not make sense to a casual fan but the experts get it. One expert went as far as to say that it also isnt a fair comparison between Grossman and Orton because Grossman had Benson as his running back.

Thats not skewing the information at all. Im not selecting certain games and only using them as evidence. I never said Rex was good the whole season, I said he looked good when he came back and thats why I used the numbers. When Orton played 3 games and Grossman played 3.5 at the end of the season with pretty much the same guys around them I think thats the best way to evaluate who did what. Im a big Grossman fan but I agreed when they benched him last year, I didnt think he was playing well. While he was sitting for a few games all anyone was talking about what they wanted Rex to do, what his flaws were and why he wasnt successful. Then, when he comes back in during the Oakland game he played extremely well up until he got hurt in Washington. He did exactly what people wanted him to do since day 1 and a good way to show it was with his rating during those games. You guys just keep saying he sucks because you dont like him but you know damn well he was playing much better when he came back at the end of the year. Also, since you guys have this one trick pony/fluke idea. Explain why he became better at the end of the year? If he was figured out and defenses knew how to shut him down, how come he became more productive later in the season? Did it cross any of your minds that maybe he also made adjustments or maybe the game slowed down for him a bit? Of course you wont consider that because he "sucks" so bad but think about how stupid it sounds to say that defenses knew how to stop him but then try to throw out that his production increased at the end of the season. Thats why that 88.8 rating is important and I used it because if what you guys were saying is true his rating would have stayed the same or even gotten worse.

What does this even mean? What does this have to do with looking for tapes of defensive signals? Since youre so concerned about big business's involvement in the NFL Im assuming you feel the same way about stadiums in regards to naming rights. Thats another example of companies making money on your tax dollars. How about exclusivity deals with certain beer or soft drink companies? Theyre making money on your tax dollars too. How about the cable company that is in a lawsuit with the NFL that donated money to a senator and now all of a sudden that senator wants to open an investigation against the NFL? Cuz, thats not the cable company trying to make money off the NFL right? The point were trying to make is, that with no proof of anything (which there isnt at this point) that it is irresponsible to have congress waste time and money on this when there are a lot bigger issues that should be addressed and that tax dollars should be allocated on. I also like that when someone says something about not wanting to spend their tax money on this, thats ok but thats only their OPINION, but for you its ok because you want your tax dollars used for it because you had to pay for the stadium with them. Well I hate to break it to you but you dont have any more say in what the money is spent on than me or madlith or anyone. Since, as the article stated, the vast majority of fans dont think its necessary to continue the investigation that puts you in the minority on this one. /thread

Did you read what I posted about Arlen Specter and his relationship with Comcast? Arlen Specter is the only person at all that is publicly asking for further investigation. The bulk of his financial backing for his campaign comes from Comcast who is currently going through a law suit with the NFL over the NFL Network. You dont think that might be a conflict of interest? The only sources in this story that are still seeking an investigation is this guy who gets money from a company in a lawsuit with the NFL and WAS the Boston Herald because they put false information in the paper about a Rams walk through. Maybe we should start letting Jay Marriotti decide what to have the government investigate if all it takes is a journalists to write a story about it with no evidence. You keep telling me to refer to your original post but it doesnt answer a question I think is very important, so please just answer it now instead of dodging it. What evidence is there to justify the government to start an investigation and what exactly will they be looking for? You might want your tax dollars used this way but youre alone on this one. If they had a lead or any specific targets thats one thing, but to look "just in case" is an irresponsible use of tax dollars, especially because of the background of the man that is calling for it. You cant do stuff like this on what if's because then it will never end. "What if" Peyton Manning is a robot that was sent back in time from John Conner to revolutionize the quarterback position in an attempt to get rich gambling in Vegas? We better look into that too, because we have the same amount of evidence to warrant an investigation on that possibility as we do to continue this one.

Well you said his trade value will never be higher than right now. Im saying that since he is coming off surgery, his value isnt that high right now, but if he can play this whole season healthy and at the level he has been his whole career teams would be willing to offer a lot more for him.

The way I look at it every offensive skill player deserves a chance to redeem themselves because of how terrible the offensive line played. With how bad the WRs have been its hard to know what we have at QB also. Its not easy to play QB for a team that doesnt block well, has tons of drops and doesnt have the threat of a running game. Ive brought it up in the past about how a young QB like either of ours needs a security blanket, check down target which we havent had. People complain about forcing throws but theres not a whole lot you can do besides that or take a sack when you have no blocking and WRs that get zero separation from the defense. If the WRs are never open, youre gonna have to force some throws or you simply have no chance of moving the ball. Also, not one of our WRs ever does anything to help prevent ints. Watch what Randy Moss does if Brady over throws him and it should be an easy int. He turns into a defender and knocks the ball down and has even gone to the point of interfering to save his team the int. Thats a big luxury and having someone that does that is why a guy like Tom Brady can afford to take extra chances.

Thats what I was trying to get at too. Its one thing if people say they dont like him and they think Orton will be better, but there certainly any kind of proof to back it up.

If he can go through this season healthy and he doesnt seem slowed down by his injuries next year his value will be higher.

I guess I never thought about it like that. We might as well lock this thread because I think the case has been closed. When asked about a statistic, the response about a blind squirrel finding nuts every once in a while is the explanation...

You wouldnt get a kings ransom for Urlacher at this point.

Another reason why I think this is ridiculous. Im pretty sure a witch hunt is exactly what Specter is doing. So between Comcast, who is currently in a lawsuit with the NFL, being his biggest campaign contributer and his interest in the religious organizations and how they handle copyright laws. Ya, I would have to say I dont want this guy doing anything that has to do with the NFL. He obviously has an agenda.

88.8 was his rating for the 3.5 games he played the end of the year. You know, after he was figured out.

Also I just read in the other thread that Arlen Specter is an Eagles fan. I honestly think any Steelers, Eagles, Colts, Rams, Raiders or Chargers fans shouldnt be involved with this. We know damn well theyre biased on this specific incident.

You threw these out in a response to my thread like I was saying we should let the NFL do anything they want and shouldnt have any rules. What relevance does that have to my post that you were quoting? Did I say anything about not enforcing rules or letting them do whatever they want? Or did I say that unless they have additional evidence I think its a waste of time to continue the investigation? Thats a big difference. Out of curiosity, what grounds do you think the government has to continue an investigation? What SPECIFICALLY would they be looking for? Unless theres an answer to that very important question, a witch hunt is exactly what that would be. So, if there was any other evidence that hasnt been debunked yet thats one thing, but if the government wants to just get involved because they were happy with the punishment, thats where I have a problem. The NFL is for fans, its not a playground for congress to go regulating. So since you seem to think they should intervene, what exactly do you think they would be looking for? Do you think the NFL is at a state right now where we need the government to step in an police it because cheating is that big of a problem?

Can you explain why if he has been figured out and its all over for him why his QB rating was 88.8?

Give me a break, talk about trying to to exaggerate what I said and take it to the farthest extreme possible. Seriously, did I say anything about it being OK to pay off officials or to take steroids or to bet on games? Dont manipulate what I say in a poor effort to prove a point. I said that with all weve figured out about Spygate since the original punishment handed down by the commissioner is that the Patriots have game tapes with clips of defensive signals on them which was already known and is the same thing the original punishment is for. I also said I care about the integrity of the game but right now they dont even have an answer to what they would even be looking for, and that makes this a witch hunt. Im all for what theyre doing with steroid testing and dont want players or coaches betting on games. My point is that unless there is something that warrants an investigation further I think Spygate is over and its a waste of time for the government to continue to tear through everything looking for something that they dont even know if it exists. I also said that I think when they start using communication equipment in defensive players helmets the whole problem of spygate will go away anyway.

Look at the all purpose yards AP had the last few games. Also the two highest rushing games the Bears had all season were AP the last two games of the season in which Orton started. AP is also a much better blocker and receiving option. Having Benson in might explain why Grossman was hit so many times where he fumbled and was sacked. All things being considered maybe we should look at how the defenses played when each qb started. When Grossman started the defense was giving up 28.3 ppg. When Orton started the defense gave up 17.3 points. Now, if we count Grossmans comeback against the Raiders both Qbs won 2 games and Grossman lost one more than Orton. However, the defense was 11 points stingier for Orton and Grossmans rating was 15 points higher. If you dont like Grossman thats one thing. But there isnt anything close to statistical data that supports that theory, in fact it says the opposite.

All I said is I wouldnt doubt it because I never saw him play. I was agreeing with you, I was just saying the Chamberlain point is a bad example. I didnt write that original article I just posted it.

Im not sure who is better at this point, I do know that Grossmans rating was 15 points higher than Ortons at the end of last season and Grossman has started a Super Bowl. (to save you the trouble, Rex was a big factor in the playoffs in terms of getting the team to the Super Bowl.

Im not doubting it but Ive never seen him play so I cant say for sure. That was just the impression I got from the article. I dont think the Chamberlain comparison is accurate though because of the difference between the two sports. A super athletic center would have success in the NBA in any era where a linebacker might not.

Well if all the teams are doing it than it isnt really giving anyone a competitive edge. Either way, I dont remember if it passed or not, but if they have it where defensive players are allowed to have communication equipment in helmets than there wont be any defensive signals anyway. We can go on a witch hunt because Im sure there are tons of things shady going on in the league but where will it stop. Popularity of the NFL is at an all time high and it has completely distanced itself as the most popular sport in this country. To be honest, I dont want the government getting involved in it. They have their hands on everything and theres always an agenda. I know one thing. I like football the way it is now, and theres no reason trying to go and make all kinds of changes because of this. If it aint broke...

Im not saying it shouldnt be investigated or that its ok, I just dont think tax payers should have to pay for it. There are a lot of bigger issues in this country that should have a higher priority than if the Patriots are stealing defensive signals. If the NFL wants to pay for it thats one thing, but the tax payers shouldnt have to. I dont think we will find out much more at this point. I think I might have a different opinion if this recent meeting ended differently but all that happened was we got to see the tapes and the Boston Herald apologized for printing false information about the Rams walkthrough. I just dont think there are any unopened doors that warrant continuing this.

I care about it as a fan of football, I just think weve reached a stalemate in what were going to find from here on out. We know what Walsh had to say and we know what was on the tapes now but it doesnt take us any further than the taping of the Jets signals and the Pats losing the 1st round pick. I do however think that Congress should have better things to do than this. They cant use the same excuse about this as they did with the steroids unless theyre worried that little kids are going to start stealing defensive signals from their friends.

Teams are probably gonna just start drafting raw athletes and create positions and roles for them. That was all the buzz on Vernon Gholsten sp? this year because of the new Ware, Merriman, Suggs hybrid position. It almost seems that most teams exclusively have a 3-4 or a cover 2.