madlithuanian

You're preaching' to the converted! (At least me...) You and I have been on the same page regarding the coaching, and the idea of this season being a quasi-rebuild.

Agreed 100%

Stranger things have happened... But it seems like every year we hear about some low end WR that's fantastic and never amount to much...

az...you must be referencing a different post, because what you're relpying to is just my reply to DrunkBomber that I already posted the Ruben Brown article from PFT... But anyway... I again have no intention of ever putting words in your mouth... While I disagree with your analogies of Cobb/Butkus and the office setting, I'll leave well enough alone and drink with you on agreeing to disagree.

At least we're not the only fool on the block... It really does look like a bum draft class. Granted, Ronnie Brown and C. Williams have shown flashes. ...and there's still a chance Alex SMith could develop. But that classs just looks bum overall. It's not like looking back at the class of '83 for QB's!

I'm pretty convinced of it. Albeit I have no evidence except the past. I just see all the talk of "competition" as just talk... They've always handed Grossman the job, I see no reason to trust them otherwise until the prove differently. Also, if you look at the contracts, I believe Grossman is in for 1 year and Kyle 2... I see them giving to Grossman as an all or nothing. Then if he doesn't pan out yet again, they go to Orton. Next season, barring something magical or miraculous from either 2, I foresee a #1 QB drafted with Orton being the starter (ie. the place holder for the rookie).

Thank again Pix!

I didn't see your post here! i Just posted it as a seperate topic...

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/ BROWN DISPUTES REPORT THAT BENSON WAS TARGETED Posted by Mike Florio on June 15, 2008, 11:54 p.m. Last week, Jay Glazer of FOX suggested that as many as ten Bears players tried to hurt former Chicago running back Cedric Benson during practice. Former Bears offensive lineman Ruben Brown took issue with that notion on Sunday. “That sounds like a lot of mumbo-jumbo,” Brown told WMVP-AM radio, via the Chicago Tribune. “Nobody does that anymore. We all respect each other’s right to earn money. I mean, we’re all trying to make it, and that makes no sense. “You’re saying Mike Brown, Brian Urlacher, Lance Briggs, outstanding stand-up people in the community and on the team, leaders of our team, wanted to go out and hurt another teammate? “Come on, that’s far-fetched. I was on the team. I saw when Cedric got hurt. Cedric got hurt on his own accord. Why would Brian Urlacher care to intentionally hurt our starting running back that’s going to keep us from making the playoffs?” (UPDATE: Actually, the back of that sentence is correct . . . Benson was the team’s starting running back in 207, and he kept them from making the playoffs.)

It's just that whole Manning vs Grossman thing that worries me!

Then Bears by 63 easy!

I agree 100%. I'd love to have him, but just don't see it going down.

I think I'm all set... Let me klnow if I botched it. Much thanks!

I just think you're taking this too personally for some reason... As Drunk Bomber mentioned, this wasn't a gang initiation or a jolly stomp. It was just some hard hits at practice. SOmething tells me the likes of Bill George, Dick Butkus, Ed O B, etc...probably did the same to guys they didn't care for, if not worse. Sure, if that were to hapen to Forte that would be awful. So would Olsen breaking Tommie's kneecaps with a crowbar. Or Lovie bashing Kruetz's femur with a sledgehammer. But, odds are all those things aren't going to happen. Your lawsuit case has me bewlidered... People don't hit people in office situations. Football isn't a simliar comparison... Regardless, let's not continue to flog this dead horse. I just hope you can get past harboring such negative thoughts about Mike Brown for what he speculatively may have done.

And your answer is (to: "is the O-line better than last year")?

Oops! My bad...wrong 4 letter name! Rose! I meant Rose!

I don't think we're any worse off as you mention... R Brown: he was awful...and will be replaced (so the new result should be an upgrade) F Miller: he was a complete turnstile...moving Tait over and the rookie should be a serious upgrade Moose: I've had issues with him the past few years....he's butterfingers as you mention. I htink BOoker is an upgrade Berrian: OK, I'll be honest here, this loss hurts. Even though he's not worth the loot Minny paid, I think he will be missed. However, if Hester can step up the play, he probably won't be missed at all. Tha't s apretty big "if" though... Griese: I admit I wouldn't mind having him around as a back-up, but I don't see it as a major loss. Benson: I think whoever fills in his role will out-do him easliy. Pure bust. I think we're definitley on the same page...

No argument here that he comes off as a pompous a$$.... However, in Sayers' case, it's not a cra##y arguement... He is in the Hall of Fame, based on his short, yet prolific career. Generally speaking you are correct, especially in Mike Brown's case. Similar cases could be Al Toon, Bo Jackson, Terrell Davis.... There are 2 topics going on, one which you mention of belonging in the HoF (which Sayers already is...), and another as to an arguement of who is the best RB of all time. THe problem with the "all-time" question is what are the parameters? What one guy do you want for one game? One play? One season? One 5 year period? One career? All those questions probably beg a different guy for each question...

Maybe that's true. But usually there's a reason behind the shunning. I sure it's not a case of "we just don't like you,etc". There has to be more to it. More than what we've even heard as speculation. It is a tough situation, but I also still contend that it is one that should be risen above. Sure, the vets are being jerky, but at the end, you can only rely on yourself to make the best of a situation and gain respect. I've seen it happen in sports and in the office. It doesn't make the road and easy one, but probably makes the succes that much sweeter and makes the person better for it. Regarding TJ, I'm not sure it was even the eventual loss of his job...maybe Benson did something to really piss him off. We just don't know. We all know greed plays a part. Once you get the starting job, I'm sure some part of human nature kicks in and you don't want to lose it. Doesn't make it nececsarily right as you mention. I guess my overall though on Benson is that he made his bed at the very onset with the contract dispute and never recovered. We can all point to other things, but I think that started the snowball effect for him. Ever since then, there's been nothing but bad vibes relating to him. Either by his own doing, or from some reported ill will by teammates. At the end, he has more then enough money to retire a happy man. I hope he finds that happiness. And I hope the Bears learn from the mistake as well. I just want guys on the team that want to be there, want to play hard, and want to win.

Don't even get me started on that! Our coaches were stronger opponents than the teams we faced most the time! I think Turner gets a pass too easily due to the success he had when he was with us with Kramer and the Super Bowl season we had. But it's all smoke and mirrors. Oh, don't get me wrong, I make no bones that Turner will continue to mis-use, not only Wolfe, but all our players. I just think having seen Wolfe take on programs like Ohio State in college, I think he can be a good element to the club. We just probably won't see fruits of that until Singletary becomes our head coach and brings in a good staff.

You can have him... How about neither?

I do see your point, but I just don't think the slipper slope argument works. There's been no flat out definitie story stating it was a love of TJ or just dislike ot Benson... And even so. I completely agree with your "in-game v practice" comments. Denis Rodman comes to mind in that example... However, I bet when Denis was a rookie, Daly didn't let him get away with that. It was only until he proved himsefl on the field did he get cut some slack. Benson hadn't done jack on the field before that. We are still doing a whole hell of a lot of speculating... Maybe the 10 guys or whatever Glazer mentioned weren't even Brown and Urlacher? What if the hit from those guys was just dumb luck? Do you really know that one guy only had it in for Benson and then recruited 9 others to be his henchmen? There's just no evidence of that. OK, your last arguement now puts it in perspective. Sure, it'd be nice if everyone played nice. But they didn't, and some believe justifyably so, and others think unjusifyably not. I think we can leave it at that...?

OK, then you're calling him a cheap shot "temp"...the intent of your comment is still the same. Sure...I as a fan, sitting on my comfy couch, playing Madden, hoping we'll go 16-0, and win the Super Bowl was hoping for the best. According to some, a few players saw differently. He did do "something". He had a bad work ethic and who knows what else... Benson can be pissed all he wants to be. He has every right and justification. It's well within his legal rights to do so. However, it speaks to his character that he'd rather piss n moan about it than stand up for himself and prove himself. Oh poor little Ceddy! I get drafted 4th overall and get a ton of loot. The mean old yucky RB I'm sent to replace and eventually take his job away from won't play reindeer games with me, and his other friends are making it tough on me in practice! Please! That's just acting like a baby! You claim to always call this like the D was acting like Jr. High Schoolers...but Benson was acting like a pre-schooler! I am finally seeing what so upsets you... I think you're saying that Cedric would have been better had the D not rough-housed him a bit thus causing him to sulk and not be happy and perform to the best of his ability. That it somehow weakened the team. I just disagree on so many levels. Fist, did it weaken it so much that we missed the Super Bowl? No. And even if it did, and their rough-housing of Ceddy caused him to fumble in the Super Bowl, etc...then we just plain deserved to lose that game relying on a weak person. I'm sure Cedric's a nice guy to hang out with. Heck, on a personal level, I do feel for him. I know tons of buddies who f'ed up, got treated bad, etc... I also know a ton who did that and made something of the situation. Football isn't about coddling and spooning, it's about tough love.

nfo, I think you're missing the point. The players like and respect Rex and Mike Brown. That makes all the difference. Brown proves himself with effort all the time and so does Rex. Granted, Brown is more successful on the field... But these guys show their work ethic. I've never taken that away from Rex. Benson did not, at least at that time even if you give him this recent camp.

Regarding Wolfe, you can place a huge cunk of the balme on the coaching. The offensive playcalling when he was in the line-up was attrocious. It's like they had no idea the guy wasn't Earl Campbell. Utilize your players. Don't let your scheme dictate that your small scat-back go up the middle constantly...