madlithuanian

First off, city governments shouldn't be financing stadiums. That needs to stop. Whether the NFL is good for a city or not, it should not be a govt thing. The free market needs to determine the viability of such. All your examples are peripheral industries that do well due to the NFL being in a city, and while true that negative percetions could hurt those industries. Isn't that just how life is? Not everything is guaranteed? Busineese go belly up all the time. It's a risk. There are no guarantees. I make no doubt that certain teams have enormous impacts on their cities financial success/woes. But it's no different than Starbucks. If they start making crummy coffee, stores close, people lose jobs...etc. Our comversation is bordering on political...but overall...what you're saying as the public losing money has no right to that money. It is a priveledge. Wheraes our tax dollars, we can have a say in. Or at least in theory.

I'd ertainly say he's injury prone. I'd also say Benson and Grossman are as well. But I digress. I really don't care about what happened before they becaome pros...all I care about is what's happened as pros. Most definitley injuries cause other problems. I have a herniated disc. When it acts up, I usually end up pulling a back muscle over-compensating for it. Then I end up straining stomach muscles over-compensating for that. It's a domino effect.

Many never thought he would... But at least we can put that to rest.

The cost you mention aren't comparable. If the NFL loses money because of a tarnished league...that particular business (owners) lose money due to decreased revenues. If the govt decides to investigate, all of us foot the bill and lose money. It doesn't cost the league much to be investigated other than potentially hiring legal analysts. But, I agree...if the govt were to go about doing it, the cost would be 10 times what it should be with every senetor grandstanding (ie. spending your tax money). I kind of feel like Mort from ESPN said last weekend...he basically said that as much as would have liked harsher penalties on the Pats and Billicheat, what's done is done, and at least it was a substantial penalty. I just think coming down super harsh on the next violator is key. We all know the Pats will suffer more in the public counrt of opinion. There's not a fan I know that doesn't think less of the team and their accompilshments.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/football/be...SPT-bear20.stng Bears get injury protection from Mike Brown deal Injury history cuts safety's '08 base salary to $950K May 20, 2008 BY BRAD BIGGS bbiggs@suntimes.com It's debatable whether the Bears have protection on the roster in the event veteran safety Mike Brown is injured again. There is no question, however, that the team has some protection in terms of finances after reworking Brown's contract. Brown has missed 43 regular-season games over the last four seasons -- including 15 last year after tearing the anterior cruciate ligament in his left knee in the opener at San Diego -- and will have to be healthy to earn the $2.44 million that was supposed to be his base salary this season. Entering the final year of the five-year, $17 million extension he signed in July 2003, Brown now has a base salary of $950,000 for 2008. The $1.49 million difference can be attained in an unlikely-to-be-earned incentive that is tied to an unknown playing-time lever. If Brown is injured before the season starts, the contract includes a split that would reduce his pay to $320,000. General manager Jerry Angelo said last year that the team was considering adjusting Brown's contract. But in a feel-good mode as defending NFC champs, the Bears showed respect for the team leader and captain by not addressing his contract after the Super Bowl season, in which he was shut down after the sixth game with a torn Lisfranc ligament in his right foot. In 2005, Brown battled a badly pulled calf muscle at the end of the season, and a torn Achilles tendon in Week 2 ended his '04 season. The good news is Brown is fully recovered from his knee injury and was running with the first team at free safety Monday in the Bears' first organized team activity. ''It starts with Mike Brown,'' coach Lovie Smith said last week on the team's Web site. ''I'm very pleased with what we've seen from him in the offseason.'' The Bears wound up changing their starting safety combination six times last season. Adam Archuleta suffered a broken hand, then was benched, and Brandon McGowan, currently penciled in as the starter at strong safety, also missed two games because of injury. For a guy who has missed so much time, it's hard to say Brown is the glue that keeps the group intact, but when he's healthy, that is the case. The intangibles he provides are so strong, the team could not cut ties with him, despite concerns that multiple leg injuries have slowed the 30-year-old. The last four seasons have been in stark contrast to the first four of Brown's career, in which he did not miss a game. Also in the mix are Danieal Manning, hard-hitting Kevin Payne and rookie Craig Steltz, a fourth-round pick. That should be ample depth, but the Bears thought they were dealing from strength in numbers when they traded Chris Harris to the Carolina Panthers last summer. Harris would have come in handy around Week 2. NOTE: Running back Cedric Benson's initial court date has been rescheduled for June 30, according to his attorney, Sam Bassett. Benson's first date was to be Monday in Texas, where he faces Class B misdemeanor charges of drunken boating and resisting arrest. Benson, who has proclaimed his innocence, will not be required to appear at the next court date. • • Assistant director of pro personnel Morocco Brown has left the Bears to take a job as director of pro personnel with the Washington Redskins. The Bears can promote assistant pro scout Kevin Turks into Brown's position or look outside the organization.

I think you're being too kind. Seriously.

No arguement regarding the LB's... Good analysis on the safeties. I wasn't putting as much credence there... I think I was focussing on the disappointment of Manning too much.

I think you may be right about the flipped pages! I agree with you that regardless, I will be rooting for whoever is under center...and that it does look like a legit open competition at this point. I just hope Orton or Rex prove some of us wrong and end up being a great QB. We so desperately need one...

While nfo and LT go toe to toe, I throw out that... Tom, I love your posts! Sure, there may be a Natl Enq vibe to a bit of it. But, I'd say, you are just trying to put an entertaining spin on things! Please keep it up! You cite your source and make your jab. I love it! If I want the hard data, I'll go check out the source you mention.

(Ps. It's Butkus, not "Butkis") No, not really. He couldn't thrive as well in a cover 2...but I'm not sold on cover 2 being a great defensive set. But, like you said in earlier posts...he's rock in the Raven's/etc schemes. And, I'd bet you a Mars bar that a vast majority of NFL teams would still take him as MLB in a cover 2 over whoever they currently had regardless. Let's be honest...Urlacher's history as a saftey in college translate beautifully to his current role. Butkus played center too... Yeah, he wouldn't fit our scheme perfectly and our current crop of coaches,etc would pass on him only to see him destory the league...

It truly is baffling...

Oh, heck yeah! I fully agree! I think you and I have on on the same page regarding our disappointment with the coaching staff. Your assessment of Turner is correct I feel. To me, it really boils down to settling up a poor match-up and not adapting to what is given. It's like a very pig-headed mentality. He just doesn't appear to want to change his ways no matter what! Don't even get me started on Babich! I really gave the guy the benefit of the doubt early on...but he has proven otherwise. I really miss Chico... None of our position coaches stand out at all. Like you mention, LB is possible...but given the talent level of our particular LB's...it could just be raw skill. And I agree about the secondary...although I'm not so sure about safety. But that could be a AA and lack of Mike Brown issue. (Or have I made a case that it is just the talent of the players involved?)

Well said... Let's also not forget Butkus played at 6'3" and 245 lbs. Odds are he'd be bulkier given today's training. He's right in line with today's LB's size and shape. It is a very apples to oranges comparison...but Butkus is the odd individual (like a short list of other HoF'ers that could play now).

Chile, I believe you are spot on. I never was able to see Butkus play in person, but my dad went to college with him and followed his entire college and pro career. No way a back mows over Butkus... Your points are 100% spot on!

Unless it's for court, Benson is just digging a deepr hole for himself down the road. ...and just reading that makes me chuckle. THe only good reason to miss camp is going to your hearing for being drunk & disorderly...?

Wow...I am literally in a state of shock. I neve would have dreamed this coaching staff would give any other QB than Rex a fair shake. It could still be smoke & mirrors I suppose.

Sad but true!

Bingo! I think the plays are there...it's just which ones and when they are being called is the issue. Also, like you mention...personnel as well. Your 4 question have no logical answers. I'm not sure in all honesty how that can be solved...other then by maybe a light bulb going off in Turner... I just don't expect it.

Gakman, I think you are spot on...

You are unfairly comparing Rex to Orton. Rex was annointed the starter all through camp and virtually all the regular season. Even when Griese got the nod, Orton was still toiling away with the 2nd team at best. That does make a difference. When Orton got in on the first game, he sure looked rusty as all hell. It wasn't a good game. However, after that, he got his bearings and started to do OK. He made a few bad passes...but they hit the dirt and not D-Backs' hands. Before they benched him, Rex was playing hideously! It was a joke in my opinion. They gave him enough rope to hang himself...and the cast of "Lord of the Rings". At least they finally did sit him. He did do well agasint Oakland...but who didn't last season? I don't want to detract that Rex did look better...but I have learned enough from him that I don't trust those 3 games as a harbringer of what's to come. I don't keep saying he sucks because I don't like him. I keep saying he sucks because he sucks. And for the record, I actually like the guy! I'd love to have a beer with him! He seems like a great kid. Hard worker, well spoken...etc. I just don't want him QB'ing my club. Bluntly, Rex is not an NFL calibur QB. Sure, he's better than the parade of fools this franchise has lined up...but that's just an embarassment of epic proportions. We'd be the laughing stock of the league if we didn't have our D. OK, to add credence to the assessment of him being a one trick pony...yeah...he looked good. FOR 3 GAMES! A season is 16. And the 3 teams he played weren't exactly against primo competition. He came in in Oakland and help defeat a horrid Raiders team. In Seattle...we lost. Agasint Denver, we won...but Rex only threw a 3 yard TD pass that probably could have easily been run in. Not to mention more Hester heroics and a game winning FG by Gould. We lost to the Giants. Then he left in the 1st agaisnt the Skins. This is who we're relying on? Sorry, but I am not satisfied. At least with Orton, there's some spring of hope that he can rise above. With Rex, we already know what we have. Or at least some of us do. Also, please keep in mind, that regardless of what us Bears fans think...the rest of the league looked at us as a freakin' joke. You think they got geeked up to play us like they did with Indy or NE? No. In those instances, sleeping dogs should be left well alone. But the moment Rex is annointed the starter and has actual pressure to win...he usually messes up gloriously. You can hold onto that 88 number all you want...because it will be a small blip on the radar of yet another Bear's failure at QB. I'd say place my crow in the fridge, because I'll eat it if I'm wrong. But, please throw it in the freezer, because odds are it won't be needed.

It really is so sad!

Well, I understand, but first and foremost, public funds should not be used to build these stadiums. It's really appaling in my opinion. These billion dallar companies are being taxed and generating revenue for the country. Unless fraud is being levied on the public, they should leae well enough alone. So far, no one is going so far to say fraud. Until then, I think the govt should stay out.

Lucky, please do not speak for my tax dollars. It's nice that you want them to do it, but I'm tired of paying my taxes and getting it all whizzed down the drain... Our hard earned tax dollars are seriously better spent elsewhere. Have you been looking at the ecnomy lately? I think the NFL is just fine right now...let's look at some real issues. Once we get those issues solved, then by all means, let's have a gander. Until then, I'll just let ESPN get the goods...

Sorry fellas...I'm just not seeing it. I feel liike this is Deja Vu... We really want our starters to be great. We always do...it's just that these guys aren't. Rex and Ced have shown me enough in my close to 40 years on this earth, that I know they will not be great. Orton, also hasn't necessarily shown me that he can be great. But, nor have I seen him with the first team with full practice,etc... I would really like to give him the opportunity to see wha he can do on Sunday's given full practice,etc... While Orton hasn't lit it up...he certianly hasn't blown it. We like calling him a manager...but isn't that kind of what's needed? Let's move the chains, eliminate the dumb errors and get Gould in place to score. Every now and then the running game will talke one in, Hester will take one in or a deep bomb will be hit. But this team right now is a nickel and dime offense... Rex give you the sterotypical HR hitter. He can hit the bomb, but more often than not he's going to stike out...and he seem to do so at the moment you need a single the most.

You're skewing the information population too much... Those are some pretty heavy assumptions that he will be as good as those games... Especially given the competition we played and the thought that we were a dead and buried team that no one got "up" for to play anymore that season...