LT2_3

Interesting read. One thing to remember though, Brad Palmer is a spiteful, drunk, idiot.

Ok. I wasn't saying that being the leading receiver means alot, what I'm saying is that if the leading receiver doesn't give you the stats you are looking for, maybe you should look at other positions and perhaps playcalling as well before throwing the leading receiver under the bus. The year Terrell was our leading receiver, Hutchinson was our QB most of the time. I'm not convinced that Moose was brought in to "improve" the QBs. I think he was brought in to give them a more consistent and reliable target, but like in 2005, his QB was the rookie Orton for 15 games who only threw for 1869 yards and Moose accounted for 750 of the 2201 team passing yards. That's over one third of the team's receiving yards for the year. That's a solid performance in my book for a guy regarded as a red chip player. In 2006, Moose had 863 of the team's 3446 team passing yards which works out to one quarter of the team's receiving yards. That's still pretty good considering that Berrian stepped up with 775 receiving yards of his own. Again, I think a solid Red chip performance. You're not limited to those guys. Pick another journeyman (guy on his 3rd team at least) that signed a lower end deal that provided 25% of a team's receiving yards in a season. Pick any one of the obviously countless examples out there. {/sarcasm} I never said he was special. In fact, I'm saying he's not, but that's what you should expect from a red chip player. Okay, I refuse to argue about what you haven't read. That's like saying that I haven't read about water on the Moon and Mars so therefore there can't be any. I also refuse to buy into the media blowing up a non-story to entice more readers - because of course Urlacher called Cutler a pussy afterall. To use your own logic about what I haven't read, but I never read that Moose ever had any problems with the players that he supposedly threw under the bus so it was all made up in the media. Right? Whaaaaaaaat? I read about Moose working out with rex the summer after he signed and he went to his wedding too. Again, can we dispense with the things you haven't read about? Awesome. Here's your chance to defintively prove me wrong. In theory, to prove that journeymen WRs can be expected to produce as well as Moose, you really should be able to find 3 examples where a lower tier FA WR came in and provided between 25% and 33% of a teams receiving yards in consecutive years. I'll be happy with only 2. Now have at it! No, that's what I meant and said the first time. To rephrase using the previous statement represented by the word "that", "but a guy off the street that you don't have to give anything up but money for? No. They aren't going to make spectacular plays and aren't going to take over a game." Like I said earlier, now it's your turn to find a couple of "white chip" FA WRs that produced between 25-33% of their team's receiving yards.

One cool thing is that we can agree to disagree. I thought Moose at least fulfilled his role as being the Bears #1 receiver for the first couple of years. In fact, he was our leading receiver his first 2 years. I don't think it should be his fault that our QBs sucked. I actually would be curious how he would do with Cutler as QB. I think he would have done much better at that point. So how do you compare Moose to the journeymen Booker and Lloyd we signed last year? (see below but we're talking about the difference between red chip and white chip players here) Yeah. I know you've argued more than just stats. He was a bit prima donnaish throwing the QBs under the bus occasionally, but I expect that from the position. It's part of the personality most of the time. I hate to bring FF into this, but I tend to shy away from individual players and draft from systems. For instance, the Colts #3 guy last year was worth as much or more than the Bears #1 receiver. If a WR changes teams, I usually stay away from them because you never know what you're gonna get. Housh in Seattle and Coles in Cinci this year are examples. I guess I'm not surprised by Moose's performance and behavior so I see it all as what I expected and therefore a "not bad" signing. But that doesn't mean "good." There you go again with the "not good" = "bad" thing again. I look at it like the Blue chip, Red chip, White chip method of player evaluation. Blue chip = Total stud in his prime with no health issues Red chip = either a steady solid starter, a fallen blue chip player due to injury, or a player that has shown talent, but isn't proven as a starter over a 16 game season White chip = Fungible commodity that could probably be replaced easily without much drop off in performance The Blue chip guys never make it to the free market. Turner was an unknown with no more than 502 yards in a season before signing with Atlanta. Brees had an injury to his throwing shoulder that no one knew for sure how it would heal. Both were red chip guys. Daniels was a solid red chip guy, and Moose was a red chip guy due to his age (32) and the fact that his previous seasons were up and down and not consistent. My point is that occasionally you can get a red chip prospect that ends up performing at a blue chip level, but that's the exception to the rule. In free agency, you end up paying blue chip prices for red chip players. Most of the time, they play like red chip players - which are overpaid by the nature of the system.

I have a problem with some of the assumptions being thrown around. Like just because a player wasn't a "Bad signing" doesn't mean it was a "Good signing" by default. Conversely, just because a player wasn't a "Good signing" doesn't automatically make them a "Bad signing" either. I see Moose and Daniels as "Average signings" because while they didn't put up spectacular numbers, they did fill a role competently, and they didn't cost more than the going rate for free agents at the time they were signed. Did they get paid alot of money? Yes, but not more than they were going to make elsewhere anyway. I think in both cases, the team was better off for having each guy on the team rather than depending on a rookie draft pick or some less expensive journeyman. I think people generally expect too much from free agents in general. It's not like baseball where you can just interchange players at will and a player has the same stats pretty much no matter where they play. Football is a team sport and judging a player based on individual stats is naive at best. Ogun was better playing opposite Taylor, Moose was better playing with Delhomme (why I can't fathom, but it doesn't matter), and Daniels was, well, very steady and solid as a DE. Actually, I 'm going to defend Daniels a bit and say that people had ridiculous expectations for him. Sure, he wasn't spectacular and didn't take over games, but guess what? GUYS LIKE THAT DON'T HIT FREE AGENCY!!! Why would you expect a free agent to perform like that? Just because he took advantage of the system to make as much money as possible? What? Really? Should he have said "No No No! You can't pay me that much because I'm going to be a disappointment to the fans!"? Here's the bottom line: If you sign a player in free agency to a going-rate deal, expect to be underwhelmed because true playmakers never make to free agency. Now if Cutler underperforms, then it's something to be disappointed in because we gave up so much to get him, but a guy off the street that you don't have to give anything up but money for? No. They aren't that good or they wouldn't be available.

That's fine but we still need 1 more to make 10.

Ok - I couldn't change the draft time to later today, but I changed it to tomorrow 10:pm CST. Let's see how many we can get signed up by tomorrow at 5:00pmish. If we can get a 10th guy (or even 11th and 12th), we won't need to change any rules. Any thoughts? If that's a bad time, I can probably select another time tomorrow as long as I do it today.

Do we want a 2nd qb? I just think it would shake up the first few round a bit

I think so. I've been PMing with DB (the commish) He's asked if I can commish and I asked him to postpone it to 9:30-10:00 CST. We're at least talking about getting it done.

Okay everyone. Thanks for those that have already joined. We currently have 7 and need at least 1 more person before it'll let us draft. If we can get one more, I suggest making a change to make an 8 person league more interesting: Add a 2nd starting QB. That'll change up the draft strategies enough to make an 8 team league interesting. Thoughts?

Are logged into yahoo already when you click the link? The link takes me straight there, but I'm already signed up. DB may need to send you an invite or something. here are the settings: Scoring & Settings Setting Value League ID#: 351370 League Name: TalkBears2 Password: forte Custom League URL: http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/league/talkbears2 Draft Type: Live Draft Draft Time: Tue Sep 1 6:45pm CDT [ Add to My Calendar ] Max Teams: 10 Scoring Type: Head-to-Head Start Scoring on: Week 1 Can't Cut List Provider: Yahoo! Sports Max Moves: No maximum Max Acquisitions per Week: No maximum Max Trades: No maximum Trade Reject Time: 2 Trade End Date: November 20, 2009 Trade Review: League Votes Waiver Time: 2 days Waiver Type: Continual rolling list Weekly Waivers Sunday - Tuesday Post Draft Players: Follow Waiver Rules Playoffs: Week 15 and 16 (4 teams) Divisions: No Playoff Seeding Options: Division winners awarded top playoff seeds Roster Positions: QB, WR, WR, WR, RB, RB, TE, W/R, K, DEF, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN, BN Fractional Points: Yes Negative Points: Yes Offense Passing Yards 25 yards per point Passing Touchdowns 4 Interceptions -1 Rushing Yards 10 yards per point Rushing Touchdowns 6 Reception Yards 10 yards per point Reception Touchdowns 6 Return Touchdowns 6 2-Point Conversions 2 Fumbles Lost -2 Offensive Fumble Return TD 6 Kickers Field Goals 0-19 Yards 3 Field Goals 20-29 Yards 3 Field Goals 30-39 Yards 3 Field Goals 40-49 Yards 4 Field Goals 50+ Yards 5 Point After Attempt Made 1 Defense/Special Teams Sack 1 Interception 2 Fumble Recovery 2 Touchdown 6 Safety 2 Block Kick 2 Points Allowed 0 points 10 Points Allowed 1-6 points 7 Points Allowed 7-13 points 4 Points Allowed 14-20 points 1 Points Allowed 21-27 points 0 Points Allowed 28-34 points -1 Points Allowed 35+ points -4

We've got 7 now and need at least 3 more. C'mon guys. Sign up!

It's been delayed for 2 daysish

Ok - We're at 6 teams. Hopefully we can get 6 more.

I'm sure that it's an oversight somehow, but the Bearstalk2 league only has 4 teams signed up and the draft is tonight at 8:00pm CST. Sure it's a pain that it's at the same time as the Bears game, but I don't think it can be changed now. So, please sign up folks or even point others in that direction just to get more teams. If we can't get at least 10 teams, there is no point in even continuing the league. Here's the signup info: league 2 http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/league/talkbears2 name: talkbears2 pw: forte scoring: basic yahoo scoring and rosters with the addition of 1 rb/wr flex. NO PPC\ draft: sunday august 30 at 8pm central

Guns don't kill people, people kill people - and monkeys too .... if they've got a gun. I'd like to see Eddie Izzard's suggestion that they give a gun to a monkey and let him loose at Charlton Heston's house carried out. Give an Orangutan a Mac-10 and teach him how to reload to be fair. Burress didn't get 2 years for shooting himself, he got 2 years for carrying an unlicensed gun in public.

I don't know why anyone is surprised. I called this after his last re-re-re-retirement. Favre just didn't want to go to TC. I predicted that he would change his mind after the Vikes broke camp leaving him a month of preseason where he can sleep in his own bed at home instead of a dorm room. It's just more prima donnaness out of the douche. I'm not worried for our team because I bet his arm has fallen off by the time he has to play us this year.

It's essentially a one year deal for $1.6 mil. The second year is for $5.2 mil that the Eagles have to pay as a team option early so he can hit free agency if they decide not to keep him. I'll be interested to see how they use him for $1.6 mil.

Yep. It's usually between weeks 8 and 9.

I hear what you're saying, and you are right that it's not that simple. That being said, the Bears have a budget that they are willing to pay to players each year. Sometimes that might go up if there is a unique situation where they want to spend more, but I'm pretty sure that if they don't spend it, they have an idea on how they are going to spend it on the guys like Cutler and Olsen in the future and act accordingly. Bottom line: They aren't going to have it taken away by the family if they just intend to write the contracts next year. I agree, but there may be a strategic reason for waiting until a new CBA is written. I'm just saying that it's not the end of the world if nothing happens this year. He's under contract for 2 more seasons after this year. Well, we really don't have to worry about it until week 7. Also, there won't be many guys on the market for other reasons, and not all teams will be able to sign whomever they want. Teams will have an extra franchise or transition tag available. How many teams have more than 2 top tier guys entering FA once subtracting the guys with less than 6 years? I'm tempted to research it just for fun if I have time. Also, the top 8 teams in the playoffs would only be able to sign new FA if they lose one that signs the same size contract. So, if when we win the SB, we'll only be able to sign a FA once a player (like Ogun) signs a contract elsewhere, and then not for more than he signs for. We'll have to see I guess. My overall point is that there is roughly 3 months before teams have to make a decision about using up this year's cap space. That is a major decision deadline where teams will have to decide what to do, and HOW they act regarding using their remaining cap space, will itself send a message about how likely the owners think an uncapped year is in reality.

I think you are confusing the salary cap with of real money. For instance, if the Bears don't spend any of the $20 mil they have in cap space this year, they still have the $20 mil they didn't spend in the bank. They could also spend $30 mil this year as long as enough of it is prorated that it applies less than the $20 mil under this year's cap. If the cap disappears next year and the Bears didn't spend any more money, then they would still have that money to spend next year after earning interest on it sitting in the bank. One other thing, it's the players that really don't want an uncapped year believe it or not. The way it's setup now, there would be very few players available in FA next year. Players drafted in 2005-06 would become RFAs because the number of years required to reach free agency changes from 4 to 6. There are actually very few players with 6 years experience with their contracts expiring.

I think Angelo should think about using it ONLY if it looks like we'll have a salary cap next year closer to the deadline to apply contract extensions to this years' cap. With the NFLPA sniping about the NFL opening their books, it doesn't look like there will be a salary cap next year. If that's the case, there is no reason to try and use it up unless they use it to lock up Cutler for a longer term deal.

I liked seeing that article from a national writer too. Although the line "the pieces are in place" kinda gave me Chief Inspector Dryfuss type twitch for a minute or two.

If he doesn't change his mind about August 15thish - after TC closes and a full month before the season with 3 preseason games remaining, then I'll believe it.

Which are pay and which are free?

It's usually late October, early November.