BearFan PHX

yeah that's what i'm saying, that whatever went down, they presented a united front in the press conference. I dont have a link, but I did hear that Poles wanted to keep Flus and Warren wanted to fire him. It was on a podcast I watch that weve discussed before. It wasnt clickbait, it was kind of snuck in during a conversation, and wasnt the main point. i believe they heard it from internal sources at Halas hall. Whether those internal sources were right i cant say of course. We are hearing that Poles wanted Flus gone after the patriot game and the McCaskeys said no. This I believe. Maybe thats what happened during the offseason too, and the story I heard was generated to give the McCaskeys cover? It's all guesses, no actual proof. But I'm sure you'll all agree, something is rotten. I'm not really sure how to evaluate Poles without more clarity on this, and I doubt I'll ever get any. But the only way I'm cool with it is if Poles really did want to fire Flus this offseason and was told not to, and if that's the case, boy are the Bears screwed up as an organization. Anyway, we all know the 8 names or so that will be in consideration for head coach. We will each have our favorites, but any COULD be good, and any could fail, so hopefully however the decision is made, we get lucky and bring in a winner. I'm starting to soften on Belichik. I dont know if the Bears would give a guy the power he'd want, but he would almost certainly make us a better team.

Yeah FWIW, I dont disagree with what ASHKUM or Mongo are saying in general. Especially about how much easier it is to play OG because you dont have to worry about the sides so you can get into your anchor quickly. As you say Mongo, facts are facts, and i do not dispute anything youre saying about that. I'm just saying i think Braxton Jones doesnt hold up well against the bull rush, and he would have a harder time with DTs bringing that. Could he be taught? I cant say he couldnt be, but I wouldnt put him in as a starter at OG until Id seen that he could do it. My issue here is with Braxton's specific toolset and not with the general points you guys are making about the positions. i agree with all of that entirely.

Hard to know whats true and whats spin though. If Poles wanted Flus but Warren was arguing against it then they didnt have a united opinion. If Poles wanted to fire Flus but Mccaskey wouldnt allow it, then they didnt have a united opinion. And yet int he press conference, they presented a united front. So I personally dont know what to believe!

I agree it's easier because you don't have to move laterally too. So for sure, it's easier. But if you're being consistently beaten by the bull rushes, and being overpowered by strength, then a DT is gonna be even harder to deal with than a DE? There is no doubt that you're correct that a lot of failed OTs make it as OGs. We've certainly seen it on our team a bunch of times. But I dont know if Braxton Jones has the strength to make that adjustment. Youre also right that it's not just brute strength but getting into your anchor, and youre also right that not having to worry about lateral movement means you can get right to your anchor, so those are reason for optimism. Im just saying that I see Jones get bullied and manhandled with the bull rush a lot more than outside or inside moves, and so i wonder if he personally has what it takes to make that transition to OG. But in general terms, i fully agree with what you've said.

I have not heard that NFL teams pay PFF for info. Do you have a link for that?

The thing is, we really dont know what Poles wanted. We've heard rumors from people who are consistently right about what goes on in Halas Hall telling us that Warren wanted to fire Flus during the offseason, and Poles was loyal to Flus. We've also recently heard that poles wanted to fire Flus in the offseason and McCaskey wouldnt let him. They cant both be true. I wish I knew which was true. And I dont. My GUESS is that the insider info was correct and Poles kept him, and the rumpr now that it was McCaskey is meant to give Poles an out. Whatever it is, it isn't good.

When you have an OT who lacks lateral quickness, you can put them inside to play guard. That way they dont get beat around the edge. But guards handle bigger men than tackles do, so if your weakness if the bull rush, youll be worse at guard. Also, I don't think Jones' problem is just brute strength, he also plays too high, and doesnt get under the pads of the rusher. I think he will be a swing tackle, but i dont see him making the transition to guard the way a lot of other failed tackles are able to. exactly. and the defense keeps the bull rush in their pocket for the right moment, that's why Caleb is always being sacked at critical moments in the last drive. I truly dont understand how comparing players with inaccurate information is helpful? I could say that Velus Jones is a 99 and DJ Moore is a 22. Easy numbers to compare! Velus is a LOT better than DJ. Except the numbers arent correct, so just because you can easily compare them doesnt mean that there is any information there?

OK, so just look at a few minutes of this. he's not an offensive guy, but this is what we need isnt it?

I think Halas would hire Vrabel. And if he cant do better, you can always keep Thomas Brown as OC, and groom someone under him as one option for continuity. If there's a better choice out there, then so much the better. Shanny is a good name if he comes free. I'm still scared of Johnson and Kingsbury. I see the talent at OC, but I have concerns. I'm still keeping an open mind at this point, maybe as I learn more I'll get an opinion.

I think it all comes down to how much Poles actually wanted Eberflus this offseason vs being told he had to keep him. I've heard that the McCaskeys wouldnt let him fire Flus, and Ive heard that Warren wanted to fire Flus and Poles fought to keep him. Both can't be true, and I have no idea which if any are real. I'd need to know inside info I just don't have. As for the assistants, I have been a loud voice about letting a coach fill his staff, but sheesh those were bad choices. And it seems like Trace Armstrong had way too much sway with our decision makers whoever they were. Now we hope that Warren gets this right, and I dunno if he's even qualified for that. Seems another sh*tshow. The good news is we are all looking at the same names, and none of us really know which ones would work out and which wouldnt so theres some luck to it, so maybe we will get lucky and hit the right answer!

I hope one of them is actually a legendary head coach in the making, and we pick the right one.

This is just how insane PFF is. They claim ZERO pressures on Braxton Jones? Now watch only the last drive of the Lions game. On almost every play Braxton has been driven back to be right next to Caleb. There was other chaos going on too, so maybe they said someone else gave up the hurry on that play. But no way Braxton kept the pocket or allowed Williams room to not feel pressured. Remember the one that would have won the game with Moore ont he crosser and Caleb threw it to his feet? Why did that happen? Because Caleb was being pressured. And one of the players pressuring Caleb was the guy Jones was trying to block. You could realistically give Jones 3 or 4 pressures on that drive alone. PFF is just silly. I understand the seduction because it feels like stat but it isn't - it's random nonsense! That was my anti PFF rant of the day LOL You have to click "watch on youtube" to see this one...

I agree. The window is open, but this is not an easy decision. In time I am sure i will have a strong opinion about it, but i sure am glad Im not the one making the choice. Right. We are not looking for a team that wants to play a gentlemanly game of football. I want a team that enjoys bullying their opponents, and stands for team pride.

I totally agree. But mostly Poles biggest strikes have been in choosing coaches?

an offensive Vrabel would be best. But who is that? I'm open because no one looks perfect to me (yet?).

I dont know that Brown has any set of things he could do to unilaterally take the job. There are other candidates too, but then again i cant imagine him going 5-0 from here. If he did that, it'd surely be impressive. I am leaning toward Vrabel too. He has everything I'd want except he isn't an offensive guy. Honestly there is no one available that I'm 100% on. I'll just have to let it play out, and likely they will make an imperfect hire, and then Ill have to root hard for him to succeed. But if they pick another HR approved McCaskey muppet nerd, I'm gonna be angry

it might just be getting used to cameras, but he hasnt fully landed in himself yet. I cant possibly guess who he will be in 3 years, but right now, hes a little nervous to my eye. But thats for cameras, I dunno how he is in game and with players. agree, and yes. That's the trick to find that blend. I dont have a single name in mind that checks all my boxes. Hopefully in time someone will emerge.

Thomas Brown says the right things. Maybe he is the guy. But they sat him down this time so he wouldnt shift his weight, but he is still compulsively licking his lips. I counted 6 times in the first 2 minutes, and it continued. That's a classic tell of insecurity.

With all the pent up emotion, I think the Bears could well win this one. And that brings us to head coach. A good HC like Dan Campbell makes the team feel the way we do right now every week, even if you're 12-1.

so true. and while I have some early opinions, I dont see a clear answer. this is the hardest decision the Bears have had to make in decades.

OK! fair enough. Im just throwing available names out there. Looking at Detroit as a blueprint, I might be OK with Vrabel as HC, but we'd need the right OC. I tend to think we should have an offensive HC, but moving another nerdy Xs and Os guy up to HC is probably the wrong move. The guy has to be a leader at HC.

I think Ben Johnson is an offensive genius nerd, and doesnt have the alpha quality we need at HC. He is perfect as OC under Campbell, who is a meathead with all the testosterone you could ever want! I think you can add Mike McCarthy to the list too. If you want an offensive guy, I think Kingsbury has the most personal alpha energy. He's kind of an asshole, and thats just what we need. Also, I know brwn has a good chest, and as a former player he has a kind of Mike Tomlin energy, but if you look at his press conferences, he is constantly shifting his weight from one foot to the other and licking his lips non stop - both are signs of insecurity. Now hes new I agree, and he may well become an excellent head coach, but right now he does not have that confident leader of men that they say he does. At least not in front of the cameras. In my past life I was on the Letterman show about 30 times. Sometimes singing background vocals for artists, and sometimes being dumb characters. The first time I did it, I already was friends with the guys in the band from studio gigs, and the theater is pretty small, so I was feeling confident all day. The rehearsals went well, it didnt seem like a big deal. Then, when we did it for real, and the red light came on on the camera the first time, my hands felt like they were suddenly 10 sizes too large and my arms felt like they were attached wrong or something. It was VERY intimidating. I had no idea. After I did for a while it got easier. And eventually you get used to it. Maybe Brown will get used to it, and maybe he really is that confident leader. Its just right now, in early press conferences, he looks nervous as hell. I bet he will be a great head coaching candidate in a few years. But I dunno if he's really ready yet.

I think that's right. Maybe there are things Poles is good at, like drafting DBs, and things he is not so good at, like picking coaches? In general I don't think I'd necessarily have to fire Poles, he's done OK. But he sure has done a poor job with coaches. Hopefully Kevin Warren understands the alpha thing and they get the decision right. There's some luck to it too. But i sure wouldn't want Poles doing it solo at least. If they get the coach right, the rest will probably be OK, assuming he can pick some OL that are actually great. Well Im not hoping poles does poorly at all. I always want him to nail each thing he does. I just think he already screwed up so many coaching decisions that Im not really sure he understands how to make that decision. If he thought Eberflus was a leader, then he isn't reading energy very well. Kevin Warren may be a blowhard, and he may be over his head making actual football decisions, but for all his bluster, i think he understands alpha leadership so maybe he will fill in the missing piece that poles seems to lack? Anyway what I just said sounds so dysfuctional to even say out loud, it makes me want to fire Poles LOL

Well said. I understand what you say about maintaining your fandom. I just think that firing someone who is a 2 out of 10 is easy. But staying with someone who is a 6 is just as destructive. When someone shows you they are average, you move on from them, even if it isn't "fair" - of course you cant know who youre gonna get next time. They all look like 9s until you get to know them. So the point isn't that someone should be able to predict the future, but they need to be able to pull the trigger when greatness is not there. You dont have to wait for failure if you know what your goal is. Mediocrity is enough. So in that way of thinking, giving coaches extra years and hoping they will get better is foolish to my way of thinking. Coaches are grown men who should have lots of football experience already. They would be the best QBs int he NFL if they had the physical talent and youth along with their wisdom and experience. That's why you can tell with coaches pretty quick. Players are different. They get a few years to grow, and they get to make mistakes. If they keep making the SAME mistakes, then you know they are done. FOr example we kept Velus Jones way too long. Yes he had speed, but he wasnt a player. And he was DUMB. But giving Justin Fields a few years to develop made sense. There is no reason to pull the plug on a 22 year old who is new to the league. But after last year, it was obvious that he was making the same mistakes over and over again. And he was the same in Pittsburgh. The reason is he was no longer growing, this is WHO HE IS. Anyway this isnt about Justin, it's about how and when to judge people, and that the same window you give to players should not be extended to coaches. They aren't 21 years old. They are who they are. So on one hand, you talk about the chaos that comes with change, and that is real for sure. But if you know you have a 6 or worse, staying longer with them to hope they change is a bad gamble. The chaos is better than being trapped in the middle, because you can overcome chaos when the right guy leads, but youll never ride a broken horse to a Kentucky Derby victory.