BearFan PHX

OK, if were gonna talk sports, thats fine, but somehow this had kind of a nasty tone. You have heard the word generational passed around in relation to Williams from any number of sportswriters and talent evaluators. I simply said that there is a lot of that kind of evidence out there, and I also said at the same time that there is risk too. You clipped that half of the sentence off as if I was asserting that Williams was a known quantity, when I never said that at all. If you want to debate, you have to be intellectually honest. You asserted that there is "little evidence", as if Williams is a complete unknown, and thats just not true. And similarly, no one knows anything for sure, and that is also true. And it's like square one, so I'm surprised you're starting there as if that is new? Also, I said Peyton Manning. I was starting my argument there. What is a great QB worth in first round picks in your opinion? We can get to the next steps of the logical argument after that first question. What is a top 5 NFL QB worth in first round picks in your opinion? If you were the KC GM, how many first rounders would it take before youd trade Mahomes?

First off there is a lot of evidence that a #1 pick QB will be great, and a lot of evidence that Williams will be great - and yes there is risk. There is risk in every draft pick, and every scenario. Secondly, I am sure trading down our #1 overall will net a 2025 first rounder. How sure are you that it will be a #1 overall? That's what he's saying. Let's start the analysis here - what do you think the best QB in the league is worth in first round draft picks? Bill Polian said Peyton Manning was worth 10 first rounders. Where do you value a player like that?

A freakin MEN - I swear it's like the emperor is stark naked and people are talking about how amazing his robe is. Ive never seen it like this before. To me, it's completely crazy.

Some of these clips are from the 2022 season, and some are from the scripted plays too. Some are rollouts or screens where the ball comes out without a read. Some are play action where the ball comes out to the primary receiver again without much of a read. In every game this season, you could see his performance just fall off of a cliff as soon as they were through the scripted plays. If Fields was routinely doing this in mid games, I'd be a strong voice for keeping him, but he isn't.

Good one! I just googled it and Mahomes worked with Kingsbury at Texas Tech.

I think we've all watched enough football to be able to at least do a little of our own opinion building. I'm not one that thinks there is a ton of special sauce that we cant see. I mean, I know there are finer points of footwork etc that I wont pick up on, but any of us can see the main stuff, and it's a lot to make a good opinion from. I almost feel like if all we do is read newspapers and stats, then we get caught up in bubble of narratives, as the reporters parrot what they read from each other. It can get nuts! It WILL get nuts around Caleb. He's already an enigmatic figure to be sure. So for me, I try to find all 22 footage. And this is what I look at: Did he throw off of a good base if he was able to (mechanics) Did he hit a receiver in stride when their route broke open i.e. on time (timing) Did he lead the receiver to help YAC or away from a defender (accuracy) Does he look confident and have a smooth throwing motion (confidence and athleticism) Can he throw all the routes without rainbows (arm strength) Does he make good situational decisions like throwing the ball away, managing the clock etc (leadership) On plays where he didnt play in rhythm, was someone open or did he have to break for some reason (structure) On plays that broke how is his improvisational ability (improvisation) I know everyone already knows this. Just saying this process ain't rocket science. I'll watch each play 2 or 3 times to answer all that, and you can get a feel for how many plays are successful and how many are not. You can see if he gets rattled by pressure, or fooled by coverages. I dont keep score or anything, but if you look at 30 passes, you'll have an idea. And best if they all come from a single game against a quality opponent, rather than a highlight reel. So I see the good ones and the bad ones. And if I watch a few games against good opponents, then it's a good view. And then of course I have a ton of good examples and bad examples and you gotta make some kind of guess as to where his average ability level is, and how consistent he is. That's the tape and we can all form informed opinions on it if we take a couple hours across the next few months to look at it.. But I dont even think that's what the core of what the Bears are still looking at now. I think they want to know everything about Caleb Williams. I bet the have investigators doing all kinds of work. And theyre making phone calls to ask past coaches and anyone about him. You gotta find out if he's coachable. And make a guess at what his ceiling is, and whether he will reach it. He's a hell of a prospect, I can already see that, but you gotta make sure hes the right guy too. Its a hell of a hard problem.

oooo French! This place is getting classy! LOL

right - whoever they hire as OC, they didnt hire the others, even if they liked them too. This time of year you never know what anything means. Not until theyre signed anyway.

Im not saying that the fans and the press didnt dislike Bears QBs. Youre 100% right about that. Weve had a ton of awful QBs. But it kind of makes my point. Even though they were awful I dont recall players calling out their QBs or throwing them under the bus? So, what players say to the press about their current starting QB may not be the whole truth. Add to that that Justin is liked in the locker room. But you can tell me DJ Moore will be upset when a new QB comes in and get him the ball on time. That's really what we are talking about here. No matter how much love a QB gets from players in interviews, it doesnt mean that behind the scenes they dont personally see Justins flaws.

we've had a bunch of awful QBs in our history, but is there a history of players throwing the QB under the bus? I dont remember it, but Im open to any examples Im not thinking of?

correct

wasnt he the one with the sex scandal involving an underaged girl at a high school party?

thank you - players generally will say good things about their QB

it all depends on free agency!

nice!

lol everything about the Bears decisions this offseason go down to the very last game the player played or the coach coached

Love the trades you got for eJax, Mooney and Whitehair!

I agree that if someone has personality problems it can hurt a locker room. But as far as loyalty to Justin is concerned, if they trade Justin, and draft lets say, Drake Maye, no one will blame Maye for that, and if he gets them the ball on time, and wins games, they will love him. If on the other hand, they draft Williams and he sucks as a person (does he? I dunno yet) then regardless of Fields, guys wont like him. So I think its just more about drafting leaders, and that goes for any QB on any team, than any left over loyalty to Justin?

it depends. over competitive - great. cocky - cool. but selfishness can go two ways. If it meets adversity and manifests as "whatever" withdrawing like Jay Cutler did, then its a problem. Im not saying thats Williams, but I am concerned and looking for more info.

good point. at first it could look really good, but in the end to be the guy that fired Harbaugh, and to see the wins decrease, will people know he had to do it? Probably not, and he will take the heat. I feel like Cunningham can wait for the right gig, but maybe the Chargers is it - if you can get a Superbowl with Harbaugh?

I think Fields' best position would be like Taysom Hill in New Orleans. Let him run the Wildcat 6 plays a game or something. And then he can do what he does best, which is run int he open field without worrying youre going to injure your QB. He could play some gadget WR too - but if we asked him to take that role, hed demand a trade. And rightly so - he will get one more chance with another team to show it, and then we will all see it one way or the other. He really is a lot like Hester - a talent without a position on offense.

he had like 5 plays against Atlanta, showing something hes never really shown before. And he didnt do it against GB the next week. I am not saying anyone off the street is as good as Fields. But compared to NFL QBs, he just never really got it.

exactly. he has to flash at least. Other than the scripted plays each week, Fields rarely showed he could play within structure. He did show a bit against Atlanta, but it was probably too little too late, and the slope of the growth curve is very shallow. Maybe he will prove me wrong, but id bet against him.

I dont think Getsy is a genius, but i think Getsy closed down his playbook to protect Justins shortcomings not the other way around. The only skill of Justin's that they stopped catering to was that they clearly told him to slide when he meets his first defender now, as opposed to last year when he put those crazy moves on defenders like Hester. I dont think Justin can be successful in any system until he can regularly make reads in tempo, and I doubt hes gonna get many more chances to do that. A new team can sometimes give a fresh start, but I think this is a fatal flaw in his game.

for sure. the great thing about football is everything is a multiplier, and if one part of the chain is a zero, the product is a zero. To your point about losing successful coordinators - this is why I prefer to have an offensive minded head coach.