BearFan PHX

having final say, youre correct, certainly not. it will be Poles and Warren that have the final say on Fields and/or which rookie to take. But they will want an OC that is all in on the plan, so from that point of view, the OC will have "input" in the sense that if they dont see things the same way, theyre not gonna get the job. I do expect if they pick a guy like Frank Reich, and decide to move on from Fields, that he will have major input into which QB to take. All this scares me that they're keeping Fields too. And if we do, we have to get a first rounder next year out of some trade, so we can get a QB in the top picks next year if this doesnt work, and then align coaches and QB on the same timeline.

To the point that we are thru only year 2 in the rebuild: No one is suggesting cleaning out the roster. No matter who is coach, we would be in year 3. I just didnt see anything from Eberflus that tells me he's the guy. I dread being right about this.

yes, if you're the guy who turned the Bears offense around, then you will get HC offers. The lame duck part comes in when you consider that you probably only have one offseason to do it and have to hit the ground running (and winning) - and you have to do that with either Justin Fields, who would have to entirely change his stripes, or a rookie who will probably have growing pains. If they dont, then you failed and everyone is probably gone next year. Of course, in any subsequent interviews you can always say "well it WAS the Bears..." And THAT is the decades old problem.

I understand the optimism. With all new coordinators, we might be thinking "Eberflus doesnt have to do anything" - that's a hell of a thing to say as a reason for optimism about your head coach - that others will make it good FOR him.

History is full of examples where bad coaching staffs weren't fired and then remained bad. If it was as simple as hiring anyone, then having two crappy years and simply not firing them turned them into Dick Vermeil, then this would be easy. Eberflus will never win a Super Bowl with this team. I respect that people disagree with me, but I strongly think in time they will regret it. This franchise sucks. I love the team, but the franchise is just amateur hour.

This is very disappointing. It smells of McCaskey-ism. Not saying that Warren wasnt in charge, just saying it's the same old kind of decision from the same old team. Saying "they have a plan" is ridiculous. Every team has a plan. Nagy had a plan. So did Trestman. etc etc lather rinse repeat. If Harbaugh doesnt stay at Michigan then this whole team should be sued for incompetence.

So Mel Kiper (Bill Tobin: "Who the hell is Mel Kiper?!) says that he thinks we can trade Justin Fields to Atlanta for their #8 overall pick. I think Mel's hair is on too tight. But just for fun - Imagine taking a QB with #1, and having #8 and #9 to play with? The other thought I'm gonna put in this crazy post is that we've been saying Caleb Williams is just another Justin Fields, that he has the same problems. Another way to look at that is that he has the same possibilities as Justin Fields - like setting the clock back and getting a second swing at the same thing? For the record, I know both of these items are silly. But while we wait for coaching news - have at it

and if they do get a guy like Harbaugh, or honestly anyone else, either their opinion of Fields is going to be part of this, or they will be picked because they share Poles and Warrens view?

Hey Pix, Some good points there for sure. The first half is well argued. The list of NFL organizations that signed on to Williams is long. It is unfair to think Eberflus could have predicted it. I guess, I mean I dont know what actually happened, but yes, youre almost certainly right about that. Still some organizations would move on anyway. But your point is well taken, and I am willing to concede it. So I'd say you removed that argument off the table. The second point is different I feel. The defense has certainly gotten better, but the defensive playcalling at the ends of games has been awful. Both could be attributable to Eberflus. The increase of talent level on the roster is also of Poles' doing of course, and the player development also of position coaches' work. So in both cases Eberflus shares credit at least? But the defensive playcalling is all him. He's also made some atrocious decisions on the offensive side of the ball too. Game management, situational football, going for it when he should have taken the FG, sitting Sweat... But none more damning than the general play it safe culture of coaching we've seen across both sides of the ball. Brisker was complaining that they were being coached to give the receivers too much of a cushion this week for example. That's not just about zone vs man etc, but that's about a general play not to lose vibe. It's classic Cover 2 thinking. Keep it in front of you. Bend dont break. etc. It has also been punctuated by some really foolhardy decisions that were over-aggressive, mostly on 3rd and 4th and short. My guess is Eberflus wanted to "not be safe" but I think that being foolhardy between episodes of protective calls is not the same thing as being more aggressive in tone. I feel like having the DBs creep up 2 yards as a matter of course in your alignments is more along the lines of what Im talking about. Let the players use their talents. But mostly its the conservative style that lost us three games we easily had in hand. That would put us in the playoffs. We got to a huge prevent way too early in historically significant ways. I think you want your coach to be a difference maker. What I see in Eberflus is a professional to be sure. Being head coach is more than calling plays (it's not supposed to be that at all usually, but ok...) it's about organizing meetings, keeping player relationships, staying the course when things get rough - Eberflus has done a good job of all these things. Maybe even an excellent job. It's probably why people want to keep him. But all of this is secondary in my mind to the product on the field. I don't personally see Eberflus as a guy who gives you an edge in winning. Multiple former players have said that Belichick would tell his guys all week "when X happens, then theyre going to do Y. Go to Z and youll make a huge play" and then in the game it would happen just as he described it. I never saw any Bears play this year where it seemed like the Bears knew what was coming on offense or defense ahead of time and had a ready answer for it. We lose the Rock Paper Scissors part of it way more than we should. What I saw was an increasingly talented roster in regular plays executing and having success. But I didnt see Eberflus outcoaching anyone at any point. So that's why I think he should be fired. As to whether the next guy would be better, you hope there are good candidates out there and that we find the right one, but for me, if you know a guy is never going to be elite, you gotta give the chance to someone else or you are guaranteeing you wont have an elite player or coach at that position. Eberflus seems like a nice guy, hes a professional, organized, taking care of the players. All good stuff. But does anyone think he will ever be an elite difference maker? Or is the argument just that incremental change might get you to the playoffs and then some upsets could magically happen and we might claw our way to success? I want an organization that builds until they are the team to be feared in the playoffs. I dont see that even in the most optimistic scenarios for Eberflus? Oh and last, I know we all agree that if you can get a known special difference make like Harbaugh, that makes the decision much easier of course! But if we cant, this is the debate. Do you keep "getting better" if you know "elite" isnt in the cards, or do people disagree and think "elite" is in Eberflus' future? I would say personally that Fields has some chance to end up elite. I wouldnt bet on it, but I wouldnt put it at 0% either. But for me, I dont see any evidence that Eberflus will ever be elite?

OK I googled him, and here he is on TV, and yeah he talks reeeeaaaalllllllyyyyy sllllooooooooowwwww LOL So it's him. But what he knows about how Pace did things doesnt necessarily translate to Poles' and Warren's timeline. We will all know soon enough I think. But damn i wanna know right now! lol

It does make sense to have a rookie QB sit behind a veteran starter to learn the ropes. I think it's common practice. We did it with Trubisky and Fields. So what youre saying makes a lot of sense in general. I think that Fields is a special case though. he doesnt make reads or execute the offense, so Im not sure hes a role model. He's also got so much love in the locker room it seems, and can you imagine if Caleb Williams is an ego and a head case and anyone even gives a whiff of rejection to him as hes sitting? Or support to Fields and he takes it as rejection? It sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. I do like the idea of a rookie sitting behind Bagent, or whatever free agent journeyman QB they want to bring in, but Fields is so young hes of Williams' generation and so unorthodox in style, it seems like a bad idea to me? Then again bringing in a rookie as the coach is on the hot seat is a bad idea too, and theyve done that multiple times in our history too.

LOL so maybe it wasnt even him?

as to Eberflus and his hires that exited etc - its not just about whether Eberflus should have known, because I get that he wouldnt. But whether it's Eberflus, or Fields or whatever, we dont see much accountability. We dont see a standard being held, we just see nice guys that we want to protect. It comes down to this same question - if you know a coach or players isnt bad but isnt great, do you give them more chances, or do you fire them, not because they were terrible, but simply because you dont believe they will ever be elite? Being elite means top 5 or whatever, so of 32 teams, 27 professional starters are not elite. You might say firing them all is crazy. You might say who will you find that you know will be elite? And my answer would be, I dunno. No one elite is just sitting there without a job. But I think you have to keep searching and trying to find elite, and that means firing competent mediocrity. It's not "fair" but it's the only way to find elite players and coaches. And on top of this both Fields and Eberflus have shown their share of incompetence too.

yes this is exactly what Im thinking. Im just looking for meaning in the fact that they havent already said anything, and of course Im grasping at straws, but i come away with the same answer youre saying.

yeah i dont get the Flus love, but what do i know?

right, I get the point, hes under contract, no need for an announcement. But then again, with all these press stories swirling, if he was staying, they could do the fans and Eberflus himself a favor and just say it? And they arent. So theyre waiting for something. Maybe just to finish their end of year analysis - Im not saying it points to any specific outcome, but i do expect some kind of announcement at some point?

If the team was 100% bringing Flus back, they'd have announced that already. No reason for all these rumors to swirl around unaddressed. I suppose it stands to reason that if they knew 100% that they were firing him they'd have done that already too? I think they are waiting to hear from Harbaugh before they do anything.

and point to one time that he gave the team an edge in winning?

perhaps that is our center.

I think from this we can glean that Flus is staying. LOL Just kidding - making fun of all the tea leaf reading in here, including mine

agree keeping mediocrity for the sake of stability just means you will be consistently mediocre.

Plus, at some point you have enough money, and it's the competitive fire in you that drives you - like winning a Super Bowl for the team you used to play for.

especially when that man hasnt proven to be a positive difference maker in giving you an edge to beat opponents, and has in fact been outcoached most of the season. Also, this thread is about blowing it up, but with the exception of the QB, the roster stays, we dont lose ground, we wouldnt be starting from ground zero, wed be starting from here.

That is extremely interesting, Grizz. Obviously Warren is ingratiating himself with some members of the press that he will need as he manages the Bears' image over the next however many years. I wonder if he had any particular influence on them, asking them to hold off on reporting some kinds of things, or encouraging them to report some kinds of things. Some reporters get closer access in exchange for Warren getting more access too. It may be as simple as just to set up connections and conduits for draft smoke, but who here wouldn't have loved to be a fly on the wall for that meeting?

yep, or one penny more than the second highest bidder is willing to pay