BearFan PHX

were they underage too you little creep? See? you keep it going. You like this. Youve been a passive agressive little bully wanna be for years, and now everyone can see it. All you need to do is stop - but you dont, you like this. Its over little girl. Im not taking it anymore. shut up, or explain to everyone here why you need to create this drama you f*cking little impotent molester. No man here would take this from you. They just didnt notice it for years - you snuck it in, and people read over it. But now it's out in the open. And I am no ones bitch. You can hijack this whole board with your childish nonsense, or you can stop. They can see youre not stopping. This is gonna turn around on you real quick in a minute, cuz theyre gonna be sick of reading me talk back. Thai child molester. Disgusting piece of shit.

do it. f*cking do it. I know EXACTLY who you are you little thai hooker molester. I was looking at my messages the other day, and saw one from 2020 talking to someone about what an asshole youve been making personal comments. Three years? More? You got the wrong guy. You really do. Im not gonna back off one inch from you. Luckily your dick is so short I wont be anywhere near it. All this because you wanna keep saying your stupid little shit? You cant just stop? You need it? Do you love me? Do I remind you of your daddy? Im just getting started - this can get REALLY unpleasant for everyone here. OR you could shut up. Your choice. Anything that happens from here is on you - all you gotta do is shut up and quit speaking to me and about me.

Oh its personal as hell. Youre too dumb to even know. I said I wasnt gonna hold back anymore. You wanna continue this you little Thai sex vacation assh*le? Cant get laid without going to another country to pay for it? best you shut up.

SHUT YOUR LITTLE GIRL MOUTH and stop speaking to me. NOW. I dont give a sh*t anymore what you think. You know what you say and how you try to sneak it in like a little bitch. Im the WRONG guy pussy. Go take it up with someone else. Dont speak to me. I am not emotional or angry. I am telling you get the f*ck out of my boundaries. You're too close, and I can smell the cum on your breath and it's disgusting. Like I said, shut up, or this escalates until one or both of us is banned, and its just gonna make it suck for everyone else. No one wants to hear it from either of us. So SHUT THE F*CK UP.

Adam had a list of the best QBs in the league here a couple weeks back, and three quarters of them were top 10 picks. Every draft pick is a gamble, but you stand a much better chance of finding greatness in the top part of the first round of course. It's self evident. There are misses and hidden gems, but statistically, talent does stack up round by round.

If I thought the defensive success was due to Eberflus' coaching, I'd agree. But he's pretty vanilla, and if you see how the defense crumbles at the end of each game, where game long coaching adjustments have been being conceived, then i think it says that Eberflus isnt really why the defense looks so good. I think we look good because we have a good young roster thats getting better every week. I put it on the players. Any good DC should be fine with this group!

just shut up. Im done trying to say what I need to say without personally attacking you, since you cant hold back, I wont either. Youre a moron. You dont understand statistics, you whine like a baby when people criticize your girlfriend Fields. Your arguments are always full of logical holes. There are good arguments that can be made about Fields, you are just incapable of making them. Read others on this board who actually do a much better job of it. Youre a fan boy with a Fields #1 nightshirt. And you are that impotent little combination of bully wanna be and victim bitch. I couldnt respect you less. If you came at me, lets say at a bar, the hundreds of times youve come at me here with these same personal attacks and snide little asides, I'd pound you into hamburger. And youd know it by the look in my eye the first time you tried it little girl. Eat a bag of dicks and leave my name and words out of your little Fields sucking mouth. It's over. You either shut up, or Ill escalate this until either you or i (or both) get thrown off of this board. Capiche? All you gotta do is shut your f*cking little girl mouth.

it was in a Harvard research article I cited here a couple weeks back. it was an older study, so the numbers may have changed. And it only tracked QBs taken #1. All I can say is, if we make a smart decision, we should end up with a better QB than Fields. EDIT - found it - here it is. doesnt make it true, just means a #1 pick aint a bad place to find a QB. Ditto top 10 picks. https://harvardsportsanalysis.wordpress.com/2011/05/31/drafting-an-nfl-qb/

you need to return your psychology degree. youre being personal AGAIN. My problems with Fields are not related to a character flaw. You need to stop taking my criticisms of Fields so personally. Im telling you this over and over. Youve been throwing these little asides at me for quite awhile now. If someone else on the board did that, Id take in stride, because it wasnt a pattern. Im not so thin skinned. In fact about the first 50 times you did I didnt say a word. But the thing about bullies is they get more and more empowered, and I can tell you right now, you picked the wrong one. You dont know me, but you really did. So then i warned you, but you kept it up, so then I made a big deal out of it so others would notice. Then you played victim, and even had that whole fake thing about "if you guys need me to leave" etc. and then now were back here. So again i tell you, cut it the f*ck out - if you need to ignore me then ignore me, but Im not your bitch, and i will shove it back up your ass. I dont know what your mental image of me in your head is, but its wrong. You would NEVER EVER say this to my face. And Im not gonna let politeness here empower you to keep trying to pee on me. If I get removed because I refused to take your little insults, then that'll be the price I pay, but my self respect is not on the table here, and you are a total assh*le.

100% What i think confuses the issue is that Fields has some pretty spectacular "it factor" secondary QB skills. he's one of the best running QBs ever. But it isnt putting up points, it isnt winning games without the core competency of the QB position. So if you just watch the game on TV and see all these heroics, it might really feel like Fields has the "it" factor. But when you start taking plays apart, and seeing who was open and what decisions he made, then you start to understand why all these highlight plays arent translating into points and wins. So as a highlight reel, he has "it factor" for days, but in terms of playing QB in a consistent, reliable and productive (points and wins) way, then yeah, he isn't even close to it. So you keep hitting the "next" button until you have a real QB. First pick overall QBs are 81% likely to become elite. Now who that first pick should be - thats a raging debate that's just getting started and I havent done enough work to have an opinion on that yet. I promise I will before the draft

again with the personal nasty and fighty BS. please grow up and stop taking this all so personally. I warned you before and Im warning you again, Im not gonna just sit here for this, so stop now before it blows up again. Got it? Dont speak to me that way. Im not lying, Im not deceiiving, Im not "trying" to do anything but talk about sports on this board. I dont like Justin and want to trade him, thats not an attack on you.

Theyre definitely improving, full of young ascending players, and we will add a few more this offseason. So right now are they the best defense in the NFL, nah. But they're way improved over the beginning of the year and they are starting to put games together where they play well together too. And the 4th quarter let downs on defense and offense are about poor coaching and playcalling I think more than the roster. So right now? Still getting it together. But next year? Top 5 I think. The arrow is pointing way up.

do you remmeber the number of times Fields tried to run and got smacked behind the line of scrimmage? Yes sometimes Fields can take the ball to the outside for an easy 12 yards. But if this was something you could make a living on, where are all the high scoring games? I think at this point I've said everything I can think of to say. I want to trade Fields and bring in a QB that plays QB. I don't believe in hero ball. I don't think an OC should have to reinvent football to make an offense work. I want a passer. If he has other skills too thats great. But he has to be a passer that moves the chains, and puts up points. It's not that radical. I'd like a QB who can find the middle of the field in rhythm. I've shown, diagrammed, everything I can think of to prove that this guy holds the ball too long. It was his biggest knock before the draft. All the draft experts said it. Now here we are 3 years later and it's still true. Even Warner himself in a clip that was supposed to be evidence in Fields' favor said it. The guy isnt a read and throw QB. I want a QB at QB.

so youre saying that hypothetically, you think a QB can be successful with hero-ball and not becoming a passer in tempo? I think youre saying that the QB has to ALSO be able to throw in tempo and make reads. And I totally agree. But what evidence do we have that Fields will grow to do that? And without that evidence, to support him, you have to believe the statement above or just think Fields will get better and do it in the future? So to answer your three part multiple choice above: I dont think you can keep Fields and draft a top 10 rookie and get what you want from Fields. So that option is out for me. If the balling out we see in the next few weeks is of the throwing in tempo kind, then I suppose it would be possible to persuade me to stay with Fields, but its such a small sample, and I havent seen it yet from him, so itd be really hard to do - but if he was suddenly pocket superman, then yes. But if the balling out is more hero ball, then no. That's my POV anyway

Speaking of former QBs, Mark Sanchez, who called the Browns game, was on with the HERD with Colin Cowherd. He says in a town like Chicago, keeping Fields and bringing in a rookie wont work. He says then Fields doesnt have the confidence to know hes the man, and it will implode. I think so too. @ 6:40 "Not in Chicago" "No chance" He also says that you can keep Fields and put guys around him, and rely on his running like Cam Newton. I think there is a plan on how to defeat that now and we've seen it the past couple weeks. The headline says Sanchez says to move on from Fields, but I must have missed that direct quote in the clip.

The problem for me is that Fields' "successes" are still not games where he is reading and playing in tempo. They are the games where his hero-ball works against a defense that isnt stopping it. So there are two questions sort of woven together. 1) Is Fields improvement that youre asking about in the area of reading and getting the ball out quickly? 2) Does anyone think a QB can be successful with hero-ball and not becoming a passer in tempo? So if Fields destroys the next 3 teams in a row with his legs, it doesnt make me feel like "progress" on question #1. So if by balling out you mean more hero-ball, then no, nothing he does will change my mind. But if you mean balling out by showing me something I've never seen from him yet, standing in the pocket, making quick reads, getting the ball out in time, moving the chains and putting up points? Then hell yes. i will support any Bears Qb that can consistently do that. But so far nothing I've seen makes me think that is ever going to be Fields' strength. And I do not believe that hero-ball will ever work consistently against playoff teams. Add hero-ball to a QB passing skill and you've got lightning in a bottle, but i cannot overlook the core competency needed to play QB in the NFL because of hero-ball extras. Once defenses get a book on that, and they have now the past few weeks, it's over. You can beat some bad or even middle teams, but it does not win Super Bowls. You gotta play QB to be the QB.

I just watch the all 22 film. Once you do that, it's just clear as day and I dont need anyone to digest it for me. But anyway, it doesnt even sound like Warner actually disagrees with what I'm saying! 1) Justin is fun to watch and very athletically talented (and likeable) 2) Justin doesnt consistently make reads in rhythm which is required to be a successful NFL QB 3) Justin's athleticism isn't taking over games or scoring a lot of points 4) Defenses have already found ways to take away his legs now, and he is failing to overcome that once they limit his trick I cant see that any of that is even debatable. If someone's opinion is that we should still stick with him, but they agree on those facts, I dont know what else to say. And if they disagree on those facts, which ones?

Ok so i listened to a few minutes of Warner on Fields today, and here was the quote from Warner "I dont necessarily think Justin Fields' strength is five guys out [as receivers], quick decisions and throw the football, so that's not playing to his strengths either" so what are we even talking about? If Warner thinks we can be successful using Justin as a runner, but not a pocket QB, then I would simply offer up how defenses have already adjusted to take that away from him, and he pretty much cant do anything after that. The proof is in the tape. It already happened. @ 5:04

I dont think Warner or anyone is lying. I think that there's a positive optimistic take on Fields, and a negative pessimistic take. Each has a set of facts that support them. And Im not saying they come from optimistic or pessimistic attitudes, just how good people can look at the same data and argue one way or the other. I do think that former QBs are more apt to see the positives in other QBs. Thats not lying, but it is a good way to be liked by the fraternity of former players, and to avoid saying anything that might make you look like you overextended and were wrong. But mostly, former QBs are QB friendly. GMs live in the world of salary caps and other realities. They might see a mixed review on a player as a problem rather than evidence for hope. In the end, there is the tape, and there are opinions. One thing that Warner doesnt take into account is what keeping fields might cost you in missing other opportunities. He's just talking about a player, in a vacuum, a player who is getting better. If Justin was your friend youd say "dude youre continuing to get better, youre gonna get there" but if I asked you to bet your house on it, you might hesitate. And that's more akin to where Poles is than just a player evaluation. But none of this proves anything. There is no proof. No one can say what a player might become. But we can say who they are and what theyve shown. Ive seen enough football in my life, and enough film on Fields to say that he has trouble reading defenses in tempo, and pulling the trigger in the rhythm of the play. All the other extra curricular stuff, the good defenses now have a bead on. That's not a situation I'd want to keep. I think thats a super defensable position. But other people have their views too. But to say that because Warner said it it must be true is a logical fallacy. Warner's opinion is legitimate. That he must be right is false. njust like that I or the GMs must be right is also false. It's a weak argument anyway. Show me Fields' winning drives where he takes the team from inside his own 30 to scoring a touchdown to win the game. Show me a game where Fields routinely threw the ball to the right read at the right time. You cant - and thats not opinion, thats a fact. Will he become that guy tomorrow? I dunno. No one does. But why bet big that he will, when he hasnt yet, and you have two picks in the top 10 of the draft? Including all the cap considerations thereof. I think thats a bad bet. It might pay off, but I doubt anyone here would bet their house on it. So theres talk, but deep down, none of us thinks this is that good of a good bet. We have hopes and loyalties and fan stuff.

yes they were anonymous, but it was a Yahoo sports article, so I believe they are real. But my point wasnt that they must be right. My point was that no one knows. The "argument of authority" is a classic logical fallacy, and I was providing a counter example that is also making the same error that went the other way. I'm not right because 7 GMs said so, and no one is right because Kurt Warner said so either. It's like saying some point of law must be correct because a lawyer said so. They are a trained professional so they must be right? But then again, the other side has a lawyer saying the exact opposite, so being a trained professional doesnt prove youre right if trained professionals are on both sides of an argument? None of this to say that if Warner says something it proves he is wrong either, rather that it isnt "proof" on any side.

This is a logical fallacy called the argument of authority. Some former players say keep Fields, and others say dump him, so there are former players saying both things, therefore being a former player doesnt mean you know, because even they dont agree. Also, keep in mind that pundits need clicks. Keeping the discussion alive brings clicks. Also, former QBs may generally have QBs backs. They probably felt like whoever cut them should have stayed with them. And also they dont want to get a rep for being a hater. Previously, someone said that 7 out of 7 current NFL GMs who responded said they would trade Fields. Does that prove that you're wrong? Of course not. That would also be an argument from authority fallacy.

seems like it. too bad too, because he could be unstoppable.

yup. thats what I mean when I say heroics. Justin is one of the best ever sandlot football players. he has all the talent in the world, but he cant seem to learn how to play QB, and now that teams have figured out how to stop him, it's kinda over for him unless he learns to play the QB position.

fair. I guess Im saying he is a hero on the play by play level, but not across a drive. And now that teams have a book on him, hes done.

I agree we need to continue to build the OL, but I have also seen lots of plays where Justin could throw the ball to a wide open receiver, and the receiver is his first read, and Justin is looking right at the receiver and has his hips open to the receiver but he just doesnt pull the trigger. And the pressure isnt on him yet.