BearFan PHX

Yeah Im not asking about Fields vs whoever, or even about Williams - those are all excellent topics - Im just asking if anyone can make the case for Maye - not over Justin, just over the other rookies, even not including Williams. Like, why is Maye better than Penix, McCarthy, Daniels or Nix? It doesnt even need to be someone who thinks that, I just want to include the arguments in my thinking so I know what to watch for in his film. Obviously i can just watch the film, but im trying to give each QB the benefit of the doubt when I look at them, and im not sure why Maye is (seemingly!) rated so much more highly than the others? So even if you dont buy into them, what are the talking points about why maye is better than those other four? All I can find is that he's 6' 5" and a bunch of thoughts about him before this season played out? I do see some commentators saying they like him better than Williams, but then they just pick apart Williams, and say nothing about why Maye would be the next choice over the others?

Yeah, I think it could be a case of media narratives from two months ago that just havent died yet. Maye is in the mix, but i dont see him as head and shoulders above the others, at least by the stats. I still need to watch a lot more film and analysis, and a lot of that hasnt even been created yet because for most of the world, it's still NFL midseason lol

I'm starting to look into the rookie QBs, and there are quite a few intriguing prospects. Williams and Maye seem to dominate the headlines, but I think there are other good options too. I get the hype around Williams, but can anyone make the case to me about why Drake Maye is a presumptive #2 on that list? Some even have have him as #1. Im not looking for that debate, because it's really a Williams debate, and Im not ready for that yet, i still dont know what to think about him. But other than being 6' 5", Maye lags behind a bunch of these QBs in stats, so why is he so highly regarded over the others? Is anyone here a Maye guy, and if so, please make the case?

sounds right to me.

This draft is deep in QBs, OTs and WRs. Somewhere there's a set of moves, possibly trades, that will set us up really nicely. Not to mention we have a ton of cap money to spend on free agents.

I figured this would be the outcome. I know I am the one making noise. Like the player being flagged for responding. Youll just have to take it on faith that I have been putting up with it for years from him. But the good news I dont want it at ALL. And I dont fight with the rest of you at all either. As long as he leaves me alone, there will be no problem. But at the same time, Im not gonna be his bitch either. I doubt any of you would either. Of course not. And lastly, to the silly idea that I am not a fan because I want this QB and coach gone, and that I think that meaningless wins only worsen our draft position and make arguments for keeping these guys - it's cool to disagree, but why would I care if I wasnt a fan? I want a dominant winning team, not a team that barely manages to beat bad teams. I know Im not the only one. Again, feel free to disagree with me, Im not taking any of that personally. But I think it's obvious that I want the Bears to succeed in the long run, and pretending otherwise is just stupid.

Riiiight. Such a caring note, no sense of condescention in it at all. It's not like as youre pretending to be so nice, youre still saying Im crazy and you have no idea whats happening. What a total assh*le move dude. Anyone can see youre still playing your game. I shouldnt even have to describe it. All you have to do is to STOP TALKING ABOUT ME directly or indirectly. thats it. Its that simple. But you know that. Im saying this for other people reading this. All you gotta do is stop.

oh yeah YOURE the victim. IM the one with the persecution complex. What a freakin joke. You just demonstrated that you know exactly what youre doing with the previous post. You know exactly what you do. Just shut the f*ck up and you wont hear from me again. Just. Shut. Up. That is all. But if you keep playing these childish games, Im gonna keep calling you out, because Ive reached my limit for your faux dominance. It's so out of order. Like I said, you'd NEVER say this shit to my face. I put up with it for a VERY long time, being the adult in the room, not responding. But Im done. You wanna keep poking me Im gonna keep calling you out on it. Im a grown man and i dont have to take this nonsense. At some point everyone else on this board will be sick of it. Some will think it's my fault. I cant change that. But Im not gonna shut up and be anyones bitch just so that others dont misunderstand me. If that means I get removed, then so be it. If it means you get removed, then GREAT. if it means that you just STOP then that's the best. SO STOP. But yeah. I am DONE with your bullshit - whatever else happens that is whatever else happens. I will retain my self respect, and defend it here too. So again, shut the f*ck up you impotent bully wanna be. Capiche?

exactly - just because youre being a passive aggressive little bully wanna be - doesnt mean you arent doing it. Youve literally been doing it to me for YEARS. I warned you I wasnt gonna take it anymore. Now I wont. Youre such an idiot, you really are. Why dont you just stfu about me and then we wont need to do this. What a child. And like I said before, you wouldnt say ANY of this to my face.

Yes. This seems obvious to me too. Of course we have to get the rookie QB and the new coach right or we're back in hell again too, but staying with a losing hand isn't gonna get us anywhere either.

Stingers being an ass again, calling me not a true fan because I want to draft a new QB and get a new head coach. I want to be a dominant team, not win some meaningless games that dont affect our playoff outcome. Given that the title of the thread is "Tankathon" it's not like I'm the only human that has ever thought this. But whether you want to win these games because you want to instill a culture of winning, or because you just like to see the Bears win, or whether youd rather think long term and not win now, either way you can be a "true fan" despite his constant and ridiculous baiting. (bating?) it's not meant to anyone else, no matter what they think of winning this year. We are all true fans in any case.

100% we all want to see Fields throw downfield in rhythm. The thing is, there have been a number of open receivers down the middle of the field. Wide open, first read, Fields looking right at them and he doesnt throw it. So it may not be the playcalling as much as it seems. Those screens (that we are ALL sick of!) have two purposes. The first is to beat the blitz, but as we all know, there are lots of blitz beating routes. Slants for example, we'd all love to see. But one thing about the screens that's different is that they arent reads. They are scripted throws, so the ball HAS to come out of Fields' hands. When you ask him to throw that slant, it's a read, and he hesitates. That may well be why Getsy was calling them as opposed to other blitz beaters that work downfield more. Now Im not saying Getsy is awesome. Im not on "team Getsy" in fact Im not for or against any of these people - I'm for the Bears becoming a Super Bowl winner. I don't want to go 8-9 because it's better than 3-14. I want to be an actual good team that contends for championships. In that light, I want to get rid of these guys. Not because my temperament is negative, or because Im a hater or a pessimist. Just because I dont think Fields, Getsy or Eberflus will ever win a Super Bowl in Chicago. But if Fields suddenly looks like a player we havent seen him be before, making reads IN RHYTHM hitting recievers coming out of ther breaks, reading progressions etc, then of course I would be all in on building around him. It's just, I havent seen it from him yet, not after the first opening 10 or 15 play script anyway. So I cant say what the future holds of course, but I dont see any evidence that this would happen. If it does, I will be pleasantly surprised, but I sure wouldn't bet on it. Does this make me one of the grumpy old guys from the muppet show up in the gallery crapping on everything? Some poeple think so. But I think it makes me more like someone who wants to win, ruthless about that goal over any feel good narratives in the press. My guess is a guy like Harbaugh sees things more like I do than the fan who thinks we are just a couple plays away from being a consistent winner against good teams. And for the record, I only mean wanting to cut dead weight to win, there is nothing else about me that is on Harbaughs level of football understanding.

sure, if youre a simpleton. It takes an IQ over, say, 80, to understand the difference between strategy and tactics. There is a famous experiment where they ask 2 year olds to not eat a piece of candy and if they can wait they get two pieces later - but they cant wait, cuz they have the brains of children.

yes I agree. I think there will be at least 4 QBs off the board by pick #10. Id be fine with getting ours at #5 or #4 if we have that pick. If we are closer to #8 or something liek that, then it makes it tougher to play with the #1 pick if you need a QB. I suppose that a new England could trade up with us to get thier guy and wed be there at #3 or #4 to take our QB and still have #8 to spend on a WR or OT or DL

I dont think he was on in those games - I think he was still holding the ball too long, but being extremely successful once the play broke. Thats the thing, sometimes the hero ball thing works really well. But I dont see him sitting in the pocket and making reads in rhythm, even when hes successful.

Pittsburgh owes us for Claypool LOL Good news tonight,

I dont think MHJr will last to #3, but I am cool with lots of different scenarios with pick #1. I think if we play with #1 overall, we should grab a rookie QB with that second first rounder, #5 I guess it will be? I may change on this as I learn more in the offseason, but right now, there are a bunch of QBs I'd be OK with, and one will be available at the 5th pick for sure. Possibly even at 8 or 10 or something like that, but I havent done any thinking on predicting that. But if we got MHJr with pick #1, or we traded it for a haul, and we got one of: (in no order) Caleb WIlliams Drake Maye Jayden Daniels Michael Penix JJ McCarthy with the #5 pick, or an 8th overall or 11th overall from a trade down etc, that'd be great for me. Im sure as I learn more, Ill shrink my list down, but it seems like we can draft a solid rookie QB and still have that #1 overall pick to play with this year.

Yeah i was agreeing 100% about 21 and 22. Im just saying, Ive seen enough all 22 this year to see that when Fields has what he needs, he doesnt pull the trigger a very high percentage of the time. I think when you watch the game you get one impression of him, especially with all the heroics, but when you see the all 22, it says something else - and that's probably why we are all seeing things so differently?

Yeah. I think it's more likely that Eberflus and Fields both stay. If theyre gonna get a new QB, theyre gonna want a new OC at the least, and what OC would come here with Flus' job hanging by a thread? So I think the most likely scenarios are that Flus and Fields are both gone, but I think both stay is more likely than Fields is gone but Flus stays?

yeah but keeping the wrong guy just delays the issue and puts the roster and whatever window youre trying to make back a year. And if you do draft a QB, and leave the staff intact then youre just making the same mistake we made with Trubisky and Fields both. Having their first year be the last year of an old system, and then trying to overcome that with a new scheme. It's probably best to finally align the coach and QB contracts together.

I think Andrew Billings is the main reason the Bears run defense is so good. When they run the ball, the NT has pretty much the same job on every play: shed the block, penetrate and disrupt the play and make the tackle if he comes into your gap. So maybe that's not attributable to how well Eberflus tells him that, and more just to do with how well he does it I also agree another real threat from the other edge player is going to make the whole defense much better. Salary cap-wise, that's probably a younger ascending player. Obviously Crosby and Sweat would be insane together if you can afford them. I've been saying to take a QB with our actual first rounder (#5?), and spend the #1 overall on Marvin Harrison Jr. But I could see taking the haul of picks and a great player instead - but only if I knew I could still get a top QB with that other pick, and that depends on how those different QBs were grading out in my mind, what the scouts were saying etc. From my way of seeing it, maybe the question is "would you rather have MHJr, or that kind of a haul of picks an a player. And you'd have either of those choices along with a rookie QB taken at 5-8.

for sure, but no QB gets ideal circumstances either. And Justin's best attribute has been how he deals with broken plays, but you're not wrong. I agreed 100% about evaluating him in 2021 and 2022 for those reasons. But now I've seen enough. Maybe Nagy ruined him I dunno.

I do know that at the start of this year everyone was saying that Fields had had it rough with no protection and no open receivers the past two years. I felt that way too. I was hoping that Fields would show us more now that he had better protection and DJ Moore. But now, we've seen a bunch of games, and we see film where Fields has a great pocket and guys open and still doesnt pull the trigger. So for some, the narrative has changed now. That's what I think one difference is? Speaking for myself, that's the evolution I've gone through. I wasnt calling for the Bears to take a QB with the first pick overall last year. I wanted to give Fields these ingredients and another season to show what he can do with them. But now, having seen him play to play, I dont believe he will ever run an offense in the NFL as designed, rather than being awesome at broken plays.

When you build through the draft, that means the roster. Poles didnt draft Fields, and the coaches arent the roster, so wanting to replace Fields and Eberflus isnt burning everything down, especially from the point of view of the roster being built through the draft, since that suggestion says nothing about getting rid of anyone poles drafted. Also, I am not calling for Poles' head at all.

I agree with this, at least in so far as I think drafting a rookie QB and keeping the coaching staff is a huge mistake. I do think we now have a decent roster to grow the QB. I also agree that it takes sometime to develop a rookie into a real winner. The thing is, I don't think Fields will ever read a defense or run a play the way it is drawn up, so to my way of thinking youre gonna have to start that 2 year clock some time, and there's no point in waiting I think you hire coaches that you believe in, and get them a rookie QB to develop. i think you trade Fields and start Bagent or a Free Agent until the rookie is ready, unless Bagent or the Free Agent are killing it.