BearFan PHX

based on what youve said, he and a couple other names are primed for a 2nd round pick, and I suppose it just comes down to our scouts and staff evaluations. Having not seen film on him, but just based on what youve said, he is definitely intriguing.

especially if Banks is off the board already IMO

its weird this year re: arms - everyone seems to have 33 1/2" arms this year. I just looked up Jackson on draftbuzz and they have him with 33 1/2" arms too. I heard there is some question as to how they are measuring at the combine, and getting shorter numbers than the pro days? Armgate? LOL But at the combine he was 33 1/2" for what it's worth - I personally dont care about arms, but film. He played guard most of his career, and then injuries forced him to LT where he did well against good competition amid a run to a national championship. He did not allow a single sack throughout the college playoffs. He was not on my radar until your post here - now I gotta go watch some film.

It's starting to feel this way to me now too. DT first round, LT second round: first round = DT, or some skill player that Johnson covets second round = LT could be Ersery, Conerly or Grant from W&M - and a DT or skill player Johnson covets third round = RB, WR, S, CB even LB maybe OL depth

Yeah, his knee is gonna be the question.

One wildcard sleeper at OT: Minnesota LT Aireonte Ersey Hes great in the run game, has all the strength and size you want, wins heads up pass protection reps, shut out Abdul Carter one on one this past year, and looked good against competition at the senior bowl - but his big knock is that he needs to do better reading and picking up stunts and games. If he interviews confident and smart, and we think we can coach him up, he could be a real sleeper and a great pick in the 2nd round. We could go DT with pick 10, and come back to the 2nd round for Ersey at LT and BPA of HB/WR/S

Its a good argument, especially if Banks is gone, and you dont know how Simmons will recover. even more true given that Allen likes his DEs a little bigger than the league generally does. When you favor a less popular body type, they can be available a little later in the draft.

This bodes so well. Wouldnt it be amazing if our defensive line became a real threat?

Im less concerned with the arms, and more with the game film. When we evaluated Skoronski it was the same thing (to me) - he was a catcher who waited for contact to come to him. (not saying Campbell has the same trait, just the same in that his film looked bad to me) Now I dont have a crystal ball, these are just my opinions. I cant say that Will Campbell wont grow into a great NFL LT, but I am just saying I wouldnt personally bet on it. I am even less informed when it comes to predicting Josh Simmons after he comes back from the knee injury. If a doctor told me he'd be 100%, I take banks at 10, or Simmons if Banks was gone. I would totally avoid Campbell. But again, thats just how i see it - no disrespect meant to anyone who sees Campbell differently.

yes it is not ideal at all this year at pick 10

he was also protecting Jaden Daniels, who ran away from sacks. There is lots of film of Campbell letting guys through, they just didnt get Daniels down? My gut says that Campbell will not make it as a LT in the NFL, but ha does have great physical tools, so with the right coaching, maybe he will prove me wrong.

Agree 100%. I woulds take Banks at 10 with no reservations, and consider myself lucky to have him. I gotta say, Ive seen a bunch of film now on Cambpell, and he is awful in 3 ways. First he plays too high. He has great strength so it doesnt always hurt him, but in the NFL, he will get pushed back with the bull rush, just like Braxton Jones. Secondly, he gets beat to the outside. Some say his arms are too short to recover from an outside move, but whatever the reason, players get the edge on him. But worst and most damning, he is awful at hand fighting and gets beat INSIDE way too often. To me that's a cardinal sin. Maybe he will be a good OG, but i dont think we should be spending pick 10 on a guard, especially with the roster as it is right now. I do see the value of having a guy for the future, but I dont think thats the best use of our first round pick? I like what Ive seen if Simmons, and if I knew he would be healthy, Id take him. But it's an unknown at best. I'd like to think we will be OK with Jones or Amagadje this year, but more and more Im starting to think that's a mistake, and we need an OT in the first round. This is a tough spot to be in. If Banks falls, then it's easy, but if he goes before we pick, I feel like we're going to have to take a chance on Simmons, and that could really backfire. Or it could turn out great. But it's a risk for sure.

AH yes. Thank you! So Jeanty does seem to fall a lot to us on draftbuzz, and personally I don't like Campbell but he is usually there too. Banks is almost always gone by 10 on draft buzz, but available until pick 17 or 20 on most other sites. This is why Im trying to figure out what I think about Simmons!

cool that you did - who were you taking at 10 mostly? For me Banks was almost always gone.

I think the basic difference between your two positions are whether it would happen at the trade deadline this year, or next year? Thats not so different, I think you both acknowledge the possibility or a trade, and the probability that he'll be here for two years? But yeah, in general, we will need to get used to the idea of trading good players who have more in the tank to make room for drafted rookies - thats how you build a sustainable team, and its not something weve been particularly known for. And it will be hard for people who are fans of the players to let go of guys who are still valuable?

I think the draftbuzz site has Nolen rated higher. Honestly their draft simulator is a LOT tougher than the others. If you check it out, use random seed 1 or 2, 4 is too out there in my opinion.

I dont think he is a sleeper - I think youre right he is a real possibility!

well you gotta take BPA when you can, but the more I think about it, the more I think we need a LT. Last week I was more Ok with drafting skill positions, defensive line etc, but unless Im missing some real starting caliber 2nd round LT prospects (which I might well be!) I feel like we need to take a LT in the first round. But to me, only Banks is the real deal, and Simmons could be, but i dont know if hes gonna be the player he was its hard.

truth - or any player for that matter. Maybe they love Swift, maybe they hate him, maybe they are Ok with them, its hard to really know anything this year. Ditto Braxton Jones, Kmet etc etc

He is definitely shooting up boards in the mediasphere since the combine, but I dont see him being truly successful in the NFL. Of course thats just my opinion, but I would imagine teams agree given his size and how he got handled by the top opponents? At least not a top 15 pick IMO.

So, I dunno. It seems like some draft sites have it so my favortie picks around pick 17-22 are still there in the 2nd round when we pick again. But DraftBuzz.com seems to value players the way i do, and they have 4 random seed settings for their draft simulator. If you use any but #4 (which is a wild card and not realistic IMO) then Banks is always gone before we pick. I'd like to see people here using draftbuzz for mocks because it is either the most realistic, or the worst case scenario (if people dont think its realistic). HB Jeanty almost always falls to us, and that means other players like DT Mason Graham, OT Kelvin Banks, TE Kevin Warren and often WR McMillan are usually gone by our pick. As Ive said before I really dont trust Will Campbell. Simmons is good, but has surgery risks. To me Membou is a non starter because he is small, and played on the right side. He player with fire, but quality opponents were able to get the better of him, and I see that only continuing in the NFL. I hear the Bears are talking to the OT from Oregon, so maybe we have some 2nd round stuff that goes beyond my research. If Banks is there at 10, Id take him, but I do encourage everyone to play with the draftbuzz simulator, and dont use random seed 4. 1 or 2 are the most realistic to my view, or the most worst case if you want to see it that way. Either way we have to be prepared for the draft to go that way, and it isnt pretty!

Yeah, for me it's Banks, who will probably be gone, Simmons, but Im afraid of the injury or Conerly who is not a clear cut first round talent. The rest, to my eye, are not going to be good. Maybe we will trade up for Banks, or maybe we will feel comfortable with Simmons' injury status. Or maybe we have our eye on a developmental player int he 2nd or 3rd round, and will ride with Jones/Amagadje this year. I just hate that plan because we all agree that Caleb needs protecting, and i think you can get a sack off of Jones anytime you need one with a bull rush. I feel like teams are holding that move in reserve until an important 3rd down. And that's an achilles heel I cant stand! But like you say, I dont see a clear cut answer, but last night I started really thinking about it, and I realize we really REALLY need a LT. Hmmm

Totally agree. I think Jones is a liability, and i hope we find a replacement for him, or Amagadje steps up. Maybe some think Jones is serviceable, and it's cool if we disagree. But we definitely agree that keeping Caleb upright is job #1, so if we disagree about what to do about Jones it's because we disagree about our evaluation of him, not whether having a decent LT is important!

because you could potentially get something of value for him. If someone else sees him as a starter, and would pay that value, and we see him as a backup and having that value, then we profit from a trade because of the difference in valuation. The good teams dont even keep all their good players, because they cant pay them all as starters when the big contract comes due. The smart teams trade them a year before that, like Belichicks Patriots trading Akiem Hicks to us. It's not that they didnt see he had value, it's that they wanted the draft picks so they could get more talent not on a big contract, rather than having Hicks one more year and then losing him as a cap casualty for nothing. You gotta get value from players that arent in your long term view when you can. And I know that kills fans who love the players on the roster, but its what you have to do to be sustainable. For example, you wanted to keep Jenkins, because youre a fan of the players, but now we are stronger without him.

I spent tonight double checking my beliefs about OT. If I thought we absolutely had to draft a LT at 10, Id take Banks. But i think he might well be gone before 10. So I looked at the rest, and only Simmons and Conerly looked OK to me. The rest are in my "no" pile. Conerly is definitely a tier lower, so I guess the big question is... Is Simmons OK? How does he grade out medically right now? And would I pick a guy who might well be the 20th pick in other years at 10? I really dont like the idea of Braxton Jones again, and I cant count on Amegadje. Hes too much of an unknown. So what do we all think of Simmons as our future LT for the next 10 years? Is that possible? He has that kind of ceiling, but is it realistic?