BearFan PHX

Of course. And Caleb isn't there yet. But he's on pace for greatness, he isn't late, or lagging behind. He's on time. If any first round player in the NFL starts playing a lot more poorly than usual, then they will lose their job. If they never reached greatness they will be a bust. That's not just Caleb, but anyone. And there is zero data to think that Caleb will regress. He hasn't been regressing. I think people just look at the performance of the entire offense, and blame Caleb. But his numbers say otherwise. And so does Ben Johnson. What they've been is inconsistent. Every good offense needs to learn how to move the chains reliably, and so do we. Imagine how those numbers are going to jump when we get there. More points, yards, time of possession and snaps against a tired defense comes when your offense is consistent. That's what we need to improve on. But Caleb himself just needs to cut down on the mistakes, and stay focused. It's not as if he isn't having plenty of plays where you can see who he is and where he's going. He's got star written all over him. And if he just performs at the level he's already at, and eliminates some mistakes, hes gonna be a top QB. Fields and Trubisky never had seasons like Caleb even already had last year. They weren't in the "eliminate mistakes" phase of their training, they were still stuck at "make reads and get the ball out" - they didn't do that regularly at all. Honestly, it's crazy to compare them. You saw Manning above, Caleb is right there, We saw Troy Aikmans second year stats a couple weeks ago and Caleb was killin him. The difference is that over time Manning and Aikman and others ascended to greatness and won championships. Caleb hasn't achieved that yet, so until he does, I get it. But he isn't late. He isnt on the cusp of being a bust. its all there on the tape. He does it multiple times every week. He just has to stay hot for longer windows, and eliminate mistakes. Who says there is even a reason to predict he won't? Only dumb sportswriters who need controversy to get clicks, and narrative driven people, who think everything is a pattern. And also those out there on the internet that wanted to keep Fields, or have a problem with Caleb painting his fingernails. It's superstition, stories, fear, hatred, whatever - but it isn't football analysis, or even in the stats. We've got a young amazing QB here - we should be supporting him and cheering for him, instead of acting like the Bears are cursed and the sky is falling. Sheesh.

Great find Grizz! I took it a little further - I projected out Caleb's current 2025 Stats to 17 games. And because Payton Manning only played 16 games in 1999, I also projected them out to 533 Attempts, which is how many Payton threw in 1999 to compare apples to apples. Also, Caleb should grow the remainder of the year and have even better numbers. People complaining about Caleb have a point that he is not a complete player, but Payton Manning was "generational" and this season that everyone is complaining about, sure looks a lot like Payton's 2nd season. And if Caleb manages even the 3,910 yards, that would be the best season for a Bears QB in history. And there's more progress to come for Caleb as he gets better! If you think Caleb is terrible, or similar to Trubisky (best season = 3,223 yds) or Fields (best season = 2,562 yds), youre crazy.

And this quote from Ben Johnson: "He played better this game than I think he had the previous two. When you look at it, all 60 minutes, and I’m not saying it’s perfect. I actually came away from watching the tape this morning, encouraged that we took a step in the right direction here this week. I know for some people it’s hard maybe to rationalize because the result wasn’t there. But yeah, I saw tangible growth from him. He’s working his tail off." Some have said this is false praise meant to shield his QB from criticism, but it's so specific, and BJ hasnt done that once since hes been here. I take him at face value. Caleb IS progressing, and we see what it looks like when it's working.

I think it's easy to look at Caleb right now and say it's not good enough. Because it's not. If this is his ceiling, then he is a bust. And I understand the desire to see him perform now. But it's not realistic for several reasons. 1) It takes time for a QB to develop. Many great NFL QBs have looked terrible at first. The actual truth is that developing a top NFL QB takes time. Consider that only maybe 10 people on the planet can do what we are asking for. It's HARD. And it takes time to develop. It's not reasonable to expect it out of the gate. We see real flashes and drives where Caleb is operating in rhythm, so we know its there, and its coming. It just has to expand into more plays, and increased consistency. Thats different than bad QBs who dont have drives like the first two this past week. 2) Caleb had nothing around him last year, so this is like his rookie year. Hell, his current stats are in line with Goffs over his first 7 games with Ben Johnson, and Goff was in year 4? 5? This is almost like Calebs rookie year. He is doing FINE. 3) Media narratives drive this fantasy that Caleb is a bust. Since he knew he was the #1 pick, he didnt have an agent, remember? And that means no PR. And so the crying in his mothers arms, and fingernail painting, and not wanting to be a Bear and all that ran unchecked in the media without a PR to fight for the other side. As a result, Caleb is hated in a lot of the media and fan boys posting online I saw an actual article that the Bears should TRADE Caleb. wtf! I see tons of evidence that Caleb can do what we all want him to do. He does it every week. He also has things fall apart too. It's not even always his fault, but when it is, thats a good teaching moment for Johnson. At this point, if you are smart and reasonable, you have to ask these questions 1) Does Caleb have the innate skills to be a Top 5 QB? YES 2) Was he widely considered a #1 draft pick by almost everyone before the draft? YES 2) Does Caleb show flashes and drives where he looks like a top 5 QB? YES, almost every week. 3) Is Caleb improving every week? Absolutely. 4) Does Caleb have the coaches around him to teach him how to succeed? YES, one of the best in the league I understand that 35 years of Bears fandom watching a trash team with mediocre QBs can create some patterns and expectations. We are trained to complain about our QB, and the one we have right now, is not complete yet, so it's easy to think we are int he same place we've been. But we arent. This is different. The evidence is right there in front of all our eyes on the game tape. The question you ask at this point isnt "is he making mistakes?" because yes of course he is. The question to ask is "do I see increasing evidence that he is going to be great?" and for me thats a solid YES. I dont think anyone can deny the good stuff. And thats proof he can do it. A first year in an offense is about learning the offense, and learning consistency. Also, it should be said that QBs like Jayden Daniels were brought into the league with a limited set of expectations by the OC, who simplified the playbook, and had success early that way. Johnson has said many times that he's feeding Caleb EVERYTHING. That means when consistency comes, Caleb will be great, while other QBs who have been successful in the short term, will still be needing to add to their game. We all see its not good enough right now. But everything screams that this is nowhere near Caleb's ceiling. Be patient. He will be a top 5 QB in time.

Totally agree, we need to step up.

so much silliness. youll see.

Justins arm was fantastic, he just didnt make reads and get the ball out on time. Its insane to me that people see them as similar. Time will definitely prove this out. Meanwhile, here's Tim Jenkins telling it straight.

100% - I see it exactly the same way. He is inconsistent, and that should develop with time. But this narrative that he is a bust, or just another bad Bears QB at this point, it just people looking for patters where there arent any. Caleb is a wholly different animal!

Honestly this is about where i figured he'd be - maybe I expected a little better. JF did not show 5 flashes every game of throwing the ball in rhythm. We dont have to agree, but when Caleb becomes a top 5 QB, I will not be at all surprised. He seems to be on track right now from what I see.

We never saw Fields playing in rhythm - we see Caleb do it every week, but making mistakes too. The idea that Caleb is the same as what we've had is false - making a pattern where none exists.

nah, Caleb has shown he can do it in flashes in every game. The first two drives this last week were awesome until they stalled in the red zone. Our problem is consistency, and thats very different than what we saw in Fields and Trubisky. We didnt see the in rhythm plays that we routinely see from Caleb.

yeah, its uneven, but we should see great games too. The first two drives this week were amazing, until the red zone. But the penalties are a killer, and good coaches work them out until they arent a problem anymore. It needs to get better, and I believe it will.

This is very well said. Loveland and Burden will be good for us for a long time, but they were the wrong picks. Maybe Burden made sense, but a 5 win team picking a TE at #10? In a draft that had multiple good ones to boot. Trading down for Trapilo, if it was a reach to supplant Braxton Jones was a mistake. And we skipped Areonte Ersery there to also acquire Shemar Turner. I mean, we are super lucky that Benedet has come out of the woodwork, but effectively trading Ersery (at 41) for Trapilo and Turner was a huge mistake. And you STILL could have had Burden anyway at 39!

I havent heard him do any of that CYA stuff yet, so I read it differently. I think he means it. We dont have to agree of course.

Forget which website this is from, the article, or even the author of the article - just watch the 1 min clip where Johnson breaks down Caleb's performance with Jeff Joniak. I still havent seen the all 22, so I dont have a good opinion yet, but BJ has never been one to give false praise. https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/ben-johnson-fiercely-defends-caleb-williams-after-ravens-loss/

yes its sloppy and undisciplined. Its not fun to see. Johnson needs to keep kicking asses. And its possible that some players need to be replaced next year too. Not saying who, just they will do whatever it takes until this team is good. On the same thread, I was surprised to see Henry score near the end, when he should have gone down just shy of the goal line to eat more clock.

yes, and you can bet BJ is well aware of it too! I think we will be fine, in time, but after the experience weve all had for the last 30 years, I get why people think "Oh no not again!" but I do see significant differences with Caleb and of course with Johnson.

Caleb has a lot to grow yet, no doubt. But we also see flashes that prove he CAN do it. The first couple drives this week stalled out in the red zone, but we all saw the offense working in rhythm, and weve seen it throughout the year. The problem is consistency. And that includes all the things Mongo detailed at the start of this thread. They all need work. But it's not like he cant do it - he just inst doing it consistently. Some of it is on penalties, some is on the other players, and some is on Caleb. But if you just look for flashes, every sign points that Caleb CAN do this. And I believe Ben Johnson is his best shot to get to where he is going. If you look at Goff's first 8 games with BJ (after he had already been a good NFL QB for several years) the numbers are strikingly similar to Caleb's. If people want to say that Caleb right now is not good enough I completely agree. But I think his future is very different than other QBs weve had here. Caleb shows flashes every week. Thats what this season is for - to develop consistency, and to face issues and then work on them until he cant be beaten that way anymore. I would still take Caleb over any other QB from his years draft. Not for where he is right now, but for where he is going. It is going to take some patience.

I definitely see promise of a top QB in Caleb. He isnt just talented - he has shown many throws in rhythm - he just needs to be more consistent. i think he will get there, and a lot of us will be very happy when he does.

Yes, lots, play to play, but not with enough consistency. He is showing flashes all over the place, but we need to keep the chains moving. Hes not inept, hes just not consistent enough yet.

I think that while this team is frustrating right now, they are very different from the other inept teams weve had here over the last 30 years. We show flashes of dominance. And we show that we change week to week. The running game was broken, then we fixed it. The defense was bad against the run, then got better. We see examples of Caleb getting the ball out in rhythm, and led the league in big plays. What I see is a frustrating lack of consistency, not a lack of talent or ability. And I think that's what this season is for. We are not a bad team, we are an immature team. I expect growth over each 4 game spread. And next year, our window truly opens. That's how I see it anyway. Ive been called a pessimist, and probably now, a fan boy lol but what I see tells me this team is further along than most weve had over the last 30 years. I cant disagree with what Lucky said above - its fair. But I love the coaching staff now, and i think they will keep Poles in line. Its too bad that we dont have a GM that would lead and contribute, but Poles wont be allowed to screw it all up anymore - Johnson has too much juice now in the building. Bears need more discipline, and Johnson knows exactly what to do with about it. We are 4-3 and growing. Today was really hard to watch, but its not the came kind of hole we've been in. We will be OK I think in time. We just need to become a lot more consistent. But the talent is there on offense.

Ah ok - well I think Fields is a good guy and a good athlete. I thought you were directing the comment to me based on the longstanding discussion of JF. If youre just rooting for the underdog - thats downright kind!

This was a bad game for Caleb, Johnson and the whole team. No doubt about it. Terrible.

Right, in week 8. People who are waiting to prove that JF is actually a good NFL QB are going to be disappointed. He just isnt. And not because of me. I have nothing to do with it. If youre hoping to prove me wrong, it's certainly possible! But not with this particular subject. The only reason JF even started today was because the backup got hurt. There is some weird cult of personality around Fields - probably because he is such a great runner. But hes not an NFL QB. It's not hard to make this claim at this point. It's not really an opinion?

absolutely