BearFan PHX

we definitely need Edge, that's 100%. Center is also something you can address very well in the late 2nd or early 3rd round. we do need a dominant 3T, but we spent two high picks at DT already, and Im not even sure were gonna be a "cover 2" team next year. but we also need another stud WR, G and safety too. Oh, and a QB! LOL that's job #1. we have some good draft capital and lots of cap room to get this all done. But to the original point that Poles will draft his long term impact players I tend to agree, and two high first rounders will bring two studs. We may also trade down, but it'd be hard to look away from Marvin Harrison Jr and a dominant Edge rusher too. Oh, and a QB

truth. there is no defense that cannot put pressure on a QB rushing only four that can succeed against good QBs. And there is no defense that blitzes all the time predictably that can succeed against a good QB either. You need to be able to get there with four. We all knew this in August. A team without a four man pass rush can't beat good teams. We knew this would be our achilles heel this year. And we looked to the offense to grow this year, and we mostly predicted that they would start scoring 24+ points a game which would be good enough to beat half the league but not the good QBs, ending 8-9 or something. We knew where we were in the rebuild. So yes, defense is part of why we are losing games, but it wasnt the goal for this year. The goal was to see if Fields could take the job with authority, or whether we'd need another QB. We have found out less about Fields than we like, but he hasnt clearly taken the job for sure. We also found that our coaches make a lot of unforced errors. Bad clock management, questionable 4th and 1 calls in situations, bad play calling, poor public communication, and their part in failing to prepare Fields to take the job by force. Next year this defense will be better. We need pass rushers, and we will get them. The questions at hand are QB and coaching. And I expect them to fire the coaches and trade Fields. If we hit on the next QB, we will be in good position to grow next year. The new QB will come into a situation that is markedly better in terms of protection and weapons than Fields or Trubisky ever did. And that QB will be tied to the contract of the head coach. It'll be a better position than we've been in in as long as I can remember. But the choice of the new QB and head coach will have to be made correctly. They are both HUGE decisions and those choice, more than any other, will define our next 5 years. This is better than being tied down to a coach or player that you know sucks and you cant move on from. 1 The worst thing in football is to be cap-tied to a turd long term 2 The next best thing is to have cap room to sign players that you hope will be good 3 The next best thing is to have cap room and draft capital to sign players that you hope will be good. 4 And the best thing is to have players that you know are good signed to long term manageable deals. We are at #3, which is quite an improvement. But its all about the decisions we make from there. Get it right, and we are ascending. Wrong, and we will be miserable again for another era.

Velus Jones is a constant mistake waiting to happen, Kmet needs to know where he is on the field and the situation, and Patrick ugh. Nice to see Bagent open with a good long ball.

because if you can get him you get him. there are 30 other teams that might make a bid for him too. also, the coaching staff is fighting for their jobs to win now.

Well you DO have space in your salary cap projections for a stud pass rusher. Every team wants one. Jason's point about overpaying in draft capital is a good on though. It would depend on what they're asking. But as for cap space, that should be OK if we are managing the rest of it correctly, and I think we are.

Even as the rookies ascend, you always need a rotation, and for that kind of money you keep Billings as long as you can.

And Marino too! As for productivity on the field, youre right - 4 super bowl wins is a lot more than one game, but Bagent was extremely productive in his one game. until I see some longer passes, I cant realistically guess at a ceiling for him! In a small limited sample he sure does look good!

Honestly Bagent looks like a seasoned All pro at QB, except we havent seen the intermediate or deep routes yet. I remember Shane Matthews being kinds of like this, except Im not sure Bagent doesnt have a deeper ball, and theyre just protecting him? So there are definitely questions to be answered, but what Bagent has done, he has done very well. He seems to hover around a 70% completion percentage, just like in college. if that holds, and he can throw deeper routes on time, who knows what his ceiling could be? (Shane was not as good as Bagents been, I just mean he made a living off of short passes)

Im not saying WIlliams per se, just a top pick.

I don't see us trading Fields and then not taking a QB in the top half of the first round. I also don't think Fields is worth a first rounder right now. Maybe if he plays much better than we've seen so far down the stretch. i suppose if he does that, we might keep him too. But if he doesnt improve dramatically in terms of tempo getting the ball out and throwing with anticipation, then he's not gonna be on our team and hes not gonna be worth a first round pick either. Either way we need more than a developmental player at QB, and i dont think you can go into 2024 thinking Bagent is your starter and the starter of the future. you COULD see a top draft pick sit behind Bagent for the first half of the season, like the plan was for Trubisky and Fields behind Glennon and Dalton, but that's still anticipating having the rookie be your starter at the end of the year and going forward. No way we're going with Bagent and a 5th rounder.

ahahahaha thankfully there is no chance youll have to hahahaha

I'd take a first and Chase Young for Fields right now. I'd probably take a second and Chase Young.

well said.

8 years ago id take Belichick all day, but he's not gonna coach for that much longer. I think he has it in him, he knows how to win, but his roster is currently depleted, i think he could build another winner. I just dont know how many years he is gonna coach for. Meanwhile Harbaugh is under some fire that could result in sanctions against Michigan. That might be a good moment to leave? I havent looked deeply enpugh into who the good coaching options are out there. I know a few names, but I am totally open to learning about others.

I dont have a lot of faith that Fields is gonna ascend, but I totally agree there's no point in shutting him down now - he can have the rest of the year to show himself, or increase his trade value or whatever. Just as I am also 100% now on firing Eberflus, but I dont mind waiting until the season is over, theres really nothing to be gained by doing it now? And technically, we still have Fields cheap next year too. In terms of that, theres nothing wrong with keeping him next year. But I think it'd be a mistake to miss taking a first QB this year when we have the high pick(s), and I don't see Fields thriving if he knows hes a placeholder for a competitive rookie. Thats why I see us moving on from Fields after this year, but youre both compeltetly right, theres no need to end the experiment now. Im just saying Im doubful it will work out, but thats just my guess, I hope Im wrong too, because Fields with rhythm like Bagent would be a killer. Id be a major fan, and sign him to a top deal then...

Oh Im not calling anyone out on this board personally at all. I'm just saying that in order to build a winning team, a GM has to make heartless decisions. Im definitely not saying anyone, including a GM, should be rooting against Fields or any player or coach. Its only to our benefit to have players succeed and grow. And I also agree with you that just because a GM cuts or trades someone doesnt mean its the right decision! What I AM saying is that we've endured crappy teams so long, we tend to accept mediocrity, or small slivers of hope as if they were progress. And I am as guilty of that as anyone. But Im sick of losing. And while I cannot possibly predict when or if Justin Fields will grow and read defenses quickly, or whether Eberflus will learn and become a great head coach, I CAN say that right now, they aint it, and there is no trend line that tells me they are going to be it either. Its totally good for us to root for all the players and coaches this year. No reason not to - Carolina has our #1 pick, we dont need to tank for it. I was thrilled to see Bagent this week. Finally we looked like actual football. But come the offseason, I hope we are ruthless and use the position we currently have with draft and salary cap capital to find players and coaches who can be winners for us. And I also think it's time for a tough disciplinarian coach who doesnt sound as if he is the head of the HR department speaking corporate platitudes. Maybe that's Jim Harbaugh, maybe it's someone else, but i want a real leader at HC and QB who inspires everyone to be better, and who instills fear in anyone that isnt giving their all. Oh and PS, when I was a little kid and Fran Tarkenton was playing, I liked the Vikings too, much to my dads unhappiness LOL

Loyalty is a great attribute to have in a spouse, partner, neighbor, friend. Its a great thing for a fan to have too. But it's death for a GM. At some point you have to ask yourself whether you are a fan of a player or of the team. if it's the team, then you have to make the tough decisions about getting rid of players and coaches who might be nice, and trying really hard but who are not helping the team win.

And like Alex Smith, maybe you can draft a young guy behind him to sit for a year, and do it right?

I feel like Bagent is as competent and capable and winnable as any NFL backup could be while still not being courted as a starter on another team. In other words, we may have found our backup for a long time. That'd be great.

RIght. Bagent is not a great elite athlete, but he is a very good quarterback. It's better to have an elite athlete who is also a great Quarterback, but i think this experience is proving that it is better to have a good QB, than a great athlete who isnt a good QB playing QB.

we may be talking past each other. I'm saying the HC and OC are flawed and should be fired at the end of the season. I could make arguments pro and con for Morgan, but I wasn't even thinking of him when i said what I said, other than the generic thought that if we have a new head coach, they will almost certainly bring their own position coaches in?

I agree. Bagent did a great job in pre snap reads and changing plays at the line. It was most obvious on a bunch of the outside runs, but this play is an example too, except he didnt verbalize it, and just took it himself.

yes, the same ones who mishandled the timeouts at the half.

Weve outsourced our tankathon to Carolina, so it's Ok to root to win

Fields lack of presnap reads and quick deliveries is pudding us in a position to lose games.