BearFan PHX

to me, our WRs are open like its a college game, Denver is terrible, and Fields is still slow getting the ball out, but it's working because Denver is so bad. Those throws to Moore where he is hit right away would be big gains if Moore got the ball a half a second earlier. Every QB, when unmolested, looks great when WRs are running with no one around them. At that point it's just like playing Madden, and everyone's a superstar. Any QB in the league would have looked great today. I know we are all hungry for a win, and so this won't be popular today, but it's the truth.

I agree that if Fields starts lighting it up, then i was wrong about him, and we can reevaluate. I know he has at least most of this season to "prove himself" - what im saying is I dont see any way it works out. His fatal flaws havent improved at all. If they do, that'll be a whole new thing. As for his contract, if you think Williams is a once in 5 years kind of guy, you dont push off getting your new QB another year because of a rookie contract. Especially because Williams will also be on a rookie contract. Also, there is no guarantee youll be in a position to take a QB in 2025. We have the two picks now in 2024. Fields has this year, but not next year, to prove himself. If this comes down to the idea that you think Fields will still emerge as a top 5 type QB this year, then we disagree, but youre right he has the season to prove it. If on the other hand youre (also?) saying that Williams isnt gonna translate well to the NFL, again we disagree, and again I cant prove it - its just an opinion, but its one that is widely shared. Then again, we can make lists of QBs who were commonly thought to be sure things that failed in the NFL too. But I dont see Fields ever being that decisive quick processing QB, and I think Williams looks like a stud. To be fair, Williams has a ton of protection. Id like to see more film of him under pressure.

Are you saying you would keep Justin for next year and use the top picks on other positions?

Now ask yourself - you're getting Caleb Williams. One more year for Eberflus? Or bring in someone else? Even if you give Eberflus every benefit of the doubt, you know the answer. And it'd be OK if the new coach was a defensive guy. And we'd need a good OC. But you know Eberflus doesnt match up to Williams in tone.

I'm watching USC / Colorado. Caleb Williams is amazing. He's confident, decisive, creative and he has a HUGE arm. He's a leader. If you want to see what tempo looks like - fast decisions, ball is out really quick - this is the guy. He's accurate from all kinds of positions and sidearm when necessary. he makes fast great decisions and delivers a catchable ball with zip on it. No rainbows. He's calm in the pocket, and often has his extended team around him during timeouts and he yells encouragement at them. And they eat it up. You can see his power and influence with them. I'm all in on Caleb Williams.

Well yeah, there's a difference between knowing that youre going to fire Eberflus, and picking a day to do it. i think we're conflating those two things in all these discussions. We're all saying "Fire Eberflus" but I think what we're really saying is "Eberflus must be gone after this year, but fire him when it makes sense" And I'm with you on letting Poles keep going. Im at least 60/40 right now on that.

I half agree with you. I definitely think the roster is much better than it was last year. I think when Davis comes back the OL is going to look a lot better. I still think Edmunds is gonna be good.I think our secondary is good if they are on the field. The HBs are good, DJ Moore is great. I'm hopefully about the rookie DTs. So you're right, Rome can continue to be built. But what i know now is that justin Fields is not our QB. And I have a pretty good idea that the coaching staff arent a Super Bowl winning staff. If you're basically saying keep Poles, I think that's what the Bears will do. But if Eberflus is still the head coach next year, it'll be a disaster and infect the new QB.

I cant remember a time a coach was fired early midseason and his replacement was named the new coach and he kept the job for several years. What usually happens is they fire the guy and name someone else interim coach - meaning they have that year but everyone knows theyre going to do a complete search in the offseason. Usually that someone comes from inside, but look at the Colts. They fired Frank Reich and named Jeff Saturday interim coach on Nov 7th of that year. I think that no one thought that Saturday would remain head coach - he came from coaching High School I think. But he'd been a big part of the Indianapolis Offensive Line and had that leadership swagger that they trusted to see them thru the end of the year. After that, they hired Shane Steichen from the Eagles offensive staff. Anyway, whoever is interim coach this year, would not likely be the head coach next year. So you can fire Eberflus when you think it's necessary. Some might think that it's just easier to let Eberflus be the interim coach. That doesnt mean they dont already know hes gone, its just the logistics of when to fire him. that he hasnt been fired, doesnt mean that internally they havent already moved on from him.

Also, I should add - Ditka was excellent at this one trait I'm talking about today, but a guy like Andy Reid could coach him into a corner in terms of strategy. I don't JUST want this one thing, but Id like to see a guy who has this dominant attribute in addition to whatever fancy stuff he's trying.

Here are some opinions of the legends he oversaw

I think Ditka is underrated as a coach. I do think it's fair to say that he isn't a cerebral Xs and Os coach. But that's for coordinators. The HC is the pilot of the ship. He creates the culture. He makes large scale decisions. Let me show you one example you've probably never heard. Remember the Fridge? Everyone was talking about what he eats for breakfast etc. No one was asking the linebackers "are you the best trio of all time?" they were shielded from all that pressure by fridge talking, Ditka calling the metrodome a roller rink etc. If you are an offensive lineman would you dig down deep to make sure you don't feel the wrath of Matt Nagy? Imagine being chewed out by Ditka. Imagine the pride of wanting play for the Bears when he was the coach. If it's 4th and 2 and you need two yards and everyone in the building knows you're gonna run it, you get into the territory of desire. History is full of examples where invaders are at a disadvantage to people protecting their homes. In a football game both teams are protecting their homes, and the degree to which they enjoy that advantage depends on how much they buy into the culture. That's something that Poles and Eberflus understand - they talk about it - but they don't actually provide it. It takes more than knowing about it to do it. It's about energy. If Bill Cowher is your coach and his chin is halfway up his face on this down, you're gonna find more you didnt know you have. If you rear ended Bill Parcells in 1976, and jumped out of your car to yell at him, you know you shouldnt as soon as you see his eyes. Like Frank Sinatra. A friend of mine saw him at Madison Square Garden in the 70s. He says that Frank came out on stage and suddenly 20,000 people knew they werent good enough. There's an alpha thing. You gotta be able to dominate these players. That gives them the belief to perform. Do the McCaskeys value that kind of person as a head coach? I dont want to get into politics, but everything they do screams collectivism and being a good team member. Will they allow a leader who is bigger than life? Someone who might also bring controversy along with his strength? Someone the players will die for? Ditka was very good at that stuff.

you can make a composite grade, it's a good idea - but leave PFF out of the formula, unless you want to add in dice rolls too. lol

yeah, and I'm not saying Harbaugh or Sanders would be the right guy for us either. I'm just saying, i think Halas Hall is attracted to predictable "good boys" and they don't consider or court the strong leaders.

I agree. Doesnt have to be a yeller. But they do have to be STRONG and choose accountability over inter office politics. Someone who can say that we stunk when we stunk. Does the ownership fear this as disloyalty? When we stink like we stunk against KC last week telling us first that the special teams did well is not the way to instill a culture of winning.

We dont have to debate Ditka as a coach. I think he was a great motivator, but i will agree he wasnt an Xs and Os genius. But the point I was making is that the McCaskeys didnt ever hire a coach with a big personality after him. Coaches like Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick, Andy Reid, Chuck Knoll, Jimmy Johnson and many others in the hall of fame willed their teams to victory. Players were afraid to cross them or perform poorly, and the right kind of players are highly motivated to perform for them. The opposite would be coaches who try to be the players' friends, like Trestman, Nagy and Eberflus. They never have success. I'm asking whether the ownership of this team will allow the hiring of a head coach with the fiery personality necessary to bring a culture of accountability. I suspect this is one of the root causes of our decades of continued ineptitude. Would they hire a coach like Jim Harbaugh or Deion Sanders? I think without a strong leader who walks the walk on the accountability, you end up with a lot of talk about HITS philosophy, but the product on the field is sloppy and unfocused. I'm also sick to death of the alternative to strong coaching. Thd idea that we are going to outsmart the entire league with new plays no one has thought of before. It's nonsense. Winning football teams pick up 3 yards on the ground when everyone in the stadium knows the run is coming. Without that, all the fancy new age crap will get you nowhere. And if you've been watching the last 30 years, you've got to see that by now.

I agree with this (other than that 3.6 yds/carry is good lol). I think the coaches suck, and Fields isnt the guy, but our roster is much better than last year, and I think Poles is doing a good job in terms of that.

Even if you've decided that Eberflus isn't coming back, you still might wait to fire him for logistical reasons. And like Cracker says, you do need someone to run the team, especially on defense. All the coaching chiars are full right now, so it's not like youre going to find your next coach among someone without a job right now. You do want the new GM (if you fire Poles) to be up to speed before this all important draft though. If you fire Poles now, the morale among the coaches goes to hell, and we go 0-17. Which might be good from the point of view of the incoming new GM and coach. But I think Warren and Poles have a thing going on, and I think Warren will give Poles a shot at picking his own HC not from a pre-approved McCaskey list. So logistically, you might fire Eberflus with a few games to go, but not this early. Especially because you surely wouldn't give interim head coach to Getsy, and you dont even have a DC to give it to either. I think the death spiral looks like this: More painful performances, maybe even a win or two. The continued de-evolution of Justin Fields. The grasping at straws short lived Tyler Bagent era, in which the offense has some rhythm, but NFL defenses bring Bagent dreams back to earth. The emerging possibility of having 2 top 5 draft picks. The emerging possibility of having the number one pick. The firing of Eberflus with three games to go. The false hope and disaster to end the season. The frantic talk of playoff bound coordinators for next years head coach. Then comes the moment that defines the next 4 years: Do we look for tricky young innovative offensive coaches to create a Jetsons offense to fool the NFL with the new rookie QB OR Do we hire an SOB of a head coach who instills a real culture of accountability?

Exactly. This is the thing no one thinks about, but it's everything. If you go 8-9 and you're in most games, you think "the coach and QB are doing a pretty good job" but you're not winning a Super Bowl. This isn't like other jobs where if you're doing a decent job, that's pretty good. in this job you either win a Super Bowl, or you're one of the 31 teams that didn't. The ugly truth is that the top 30 quarterbacks that aren't in the league would all be pro bowlers if they had 5 seconds of protection reliably. There are thousands of head coaches that can organize a team, and do a decent job of leadership and providing a professional product. That's awesome for kitchen remodeling. Every day across the world many kitchens are being well remodeled, and the client will be happy with the good work. They wont be upset if their remodel job isn't the literal #1 best in the world. If it's really good, that's a win. This is competence and professionalism. It's rare enough, but it's out there to be found easily if you can pay the going rate in most professions. But winning Super Bowls takes difference makers. Quarterbacks and Head Coaches that regularly improve your team's chances of winning over competent opponents. Reliable 12+ win seasons. Identity. All Pros. Hall of Famers. Champions. If you have someone struggling to provide competence, it's easy enough to see that you need to fire them. But the thing no one thinks about is that if someone is competent, but could easily be replaced by another competent coach or QB without missing a beat, that should be fire-able too in the NFL. We aren't searching for #16, we are hunting for rare outliers that create dominant outcomes. You need to be buying a lottery ticket on greatness when you hire in the NFL. Often they will fall short. There aren't many to go around. The best chance of finding one is often to take a chance on a young kid that isn't ready yet. Look at Belichick with the Browns. So there is reason to hang with someone for a few seasons to see what they become I will admit. But in the end you are hunting outliers with the strong will to dominate and lead others around them to follow. That means strong personalities, weird geniuses - the kind of people that just wouldn't belong at a McCaskey catered summer lawn party. Mike Ditka willed his Bears to legendary status. The McCaskeys hated it. This is why we've hired polite and political competence ever since. if we had a Buddy Ryan, we might have been able to draft and control Jalen Carter. etc. Now, Kevin Warren is in the house. For the first time we have an organizational structure that contemplates someone above the GM who can take the right risks and disagree with the ownership. Is Warren that kind of guy? Is he rough enough to challenge the powers that be? Is this kind of difference maker even in his vision? Or does he prefer competent professionals that don't make waves? One wonder if Ryan Poles understands this. If he and Warren get this the next time we hire a coach, we have a chance. If they value cohesive structure and their own status above the HC, then we're doomed. Again. Put it this way. Can this team hire a guy like Jim Harbaugh? Can we tolerate a QB with the competitive fire of Jim McMahon? Because until we are willing to think like that, we will be struggling to provide average outcomes, and call it professional. And when that's your goal, no wonder you fall this short.

Fields is bad and the coaching is bad. I don't think Fields would be good with other coaches. I dont think the coaches would be great with another QB.

I commented on Fields holding the ball too long on the Chase Daniels YouTube video, and all the homers came after me - Fields is great, its just the coaching, they think. Kool aid is a hell of a drug.

yup, or like Tom Brady, Jim McMahon, Aaron Rodgers, and any number of winners who CARE. Jay Cutler was a lot better than Justin fields.

could you imagine what that woulds look like? Wow. somewhere along the line we're gonna need a stud top 5 type DE too. cant win games without a pass rush, but Caleb and Marvin would be a dream.

And it's a chicken / egg kind of thing, because it is this willingness to forgive yourself and separate yourself from adversity that has prevented him from having the sense of urgency which is the only thing missing in his game. It's a kind of victim mentality "well this isnt my fault, Im surrounded by idiots and adversity, so Ill give half an effort and coil up in my entitlement and not give a crap" I feel like these coaches love players who let them dominate them. But then youve got losers. I want a QB that gets pissed. remember Jim McMahon? he wasnt a great QB. He didnt have the best arm or anything, but he was a feisty leader that dragged his teammates to become winners. Remember him arguing with Ditka on that Monday night game against Minnesota? That miracle in the 4th quarter off the bench gave him ownership of that team. Trubisky is a puppy, and Fields is too cool for the NFL. They both got their millions, why worry about something as dumb as sports when it doesnt come easy to you? Why dig down to really put it on the line when you can just say how dumb everyone is, and shake your head and quit and take the money? Get me Jim Harbaugh on the phone. Or someone similar. They say the team is a reflection of the head coach "well there were a few positives this week..." Get me a WINNER.

the philosophical loser. are we there already?

If you need to understand what's wrong with Fields, and that it isnt just the coaching (which is also terrible), just look at the first play of this tape. He's looking right at Moore. Moore is open. Fields is protected. There is a passing window. But the ball doesnt come out. Why? Who the hell knows, but Fields is done.