BearFan PHX

it's a good take because there are multiple highly touted QBs entering the draft. That's gotta make these guys want to make the jump. Two questions: 1) Do we think Harbaugh would be a good coach for the Bears? 2) Do we think the Bears would hire Harbaugh? I havent thought enough about it to know what my final decision would be - especially not having investigated a lot of alternate options yet. But my gut call is that Harbaugh is exactly who we need. But he IS a lunatic who's hell bent on winning. At first glance that sounds great - but he is a major weirdo. Hard-ass doesn't even begin to describe it. He's an alpha among alphas and has a giant stick wedged waaaaay up there. He's the drill sergeant from Full Metal Jacket. So I wonder if the Bears would be willing to deal with him and hire him. I wonder if he'd insist on controlling player acquisition. I wonder if he might burn out today's overpaid players with too much authority. On the other hand... he'd be maniacal about winning. I'd probably go for it. I still need to know more about other options too.

I'm sure despite all the right things said to reporters, there are players that are frustrated with Fields' play and want to win games. I don't see this like when Lovie left and Trestman came in and some players we're mutinous because they were still Lovies guys. Lovie had won with them, and taken them to a super bowl. We've won one game in a year. Im sure the players would love new coaches and players who can win games. The question is can we find those people and make them Bears?

thats where Im at too

true

Im arguing that Fields sucks. You were comparing him to Mahomes, so I was saying "no, theyre nothing alike" but I didnt want to be mean or attacking, so i put it as a question "do you really think Mahomes and Fields are comparable?" Because i dont, and it seemed to me you were saying they were. And the funny thing is you agree with me so much that you were insulted (which i wasnt trying to do) so then Im back to the obvious point - so how can you compare them? I wanted Fields to be good. He has a lot of great tools. But for whatever reason, he hasnt sped up his processing. What he has that keeps him in the statistical conversation is: last year he was one of the best running QBs ever he had two statistically good games in a row against defenses that left receivers wide open and to me, neither of those things means anything, unless or until he starts stacking those kind of statistical passing performances week after week against defenses that cover better. I think this may be the classic stats vs eye test argument? and it is also the "im rooting for him" vs "I think its time to move on" argument both are classic sports debates that go on with every team. So really, I promise Im not trying to bait you. I just disagree with you, and Im trying to put it in the nicest way possible, while still arguing my side?

I think you are probably right. I mostly like Poles. The only hitch may be if a strong willed coach comes in, like a Harbaugh, who demands more input to the roster and wants his own guy in there. But if I had to lay odds, I'd say it's 70%+ Poles stays?

it's an incredibly rare opportunity - but they have to make the right picks. NFL QBs are so hard to project. I hope we have the right guys making the right choice, because that more than anything else will define our next 4 or 5 years here

yeah, this made a lot of sense at the time. and you nailed it. we were all full of questions on Fields, and second string QBs, especially rookie ones, are what football kool aid dreams are made of. Most QBs dont play every snap, theres usually some injury, and even if youre debating which QB should be the backup, youre doing it in the framework of "what if they play?" so it makes sense. Im going with foreshadowing.

I remain completely confused about Bagent. I dont think he is superman, but I dont see how he wasnt drafted. There must be a reason. The things he does well, he seems to do very well, especially for such a young rookie. i have read, and participated in, suspicion about his arm strength, but he threw a long ball earlier in the game that didnt have too much rainbow to it, so i dunno. Is it just that he didnt face Division 1 opponents? if thats all it is, then yeah we should evaluate him and see what he really is. But if there is some other reason why scouts passed on him, then he probably isnt the long term answer, and with 2 top first round picks, and a year of good QBs, you gotta grab one. But I am rooting for the kid, and I like him. I am sure at this point Getsy thinks the ONLY way he lives thru this year is to kick ass with Bagent and then have everyone think that it was all Justin's fault. I will say this tho - not yet knowing Bagent's major flaws - when hes in there, it looks like football. The timing feels crisp, and it just looks like a real offense. I hope Getsy given him the whole playbook and doesnt try to protect him and scheme away from just playing regular football.

Yeah but there is nothing personal in that. You were comparing Fields to Mahomes, so i asked if you really meant it. I do try if you notice to also post my agreement with what you say when we agree, so im not like trying to rile you up or anything. I hope that helps.

I hope he is able to come back and play well - it helps us all the way around. But I dont want to win any games by luck. I want to win the games we deserve to win on the field, and lose the ones we deserve to lose. We need to see whats what so we can make sound decisions going into the offseason. Seeing more Justin is a good thing no matter what we find out about him. And it will be fun to see Bagent this week. I'm rooting for the kid to do well. He's fun to watch, but Im nowhere near ready to think he should be our starter next year or anything like that. But he is the underdog, so Im rooting for him.

for sure - it's both of them. That was the worst gameplan - for a team you KNEW was gonna blitz too. The first play is a perfect example. You have an empty backfield, against a blitz heavy team! Why? Then they show 6 guys up front. We only have five to block them. Justin does nothing to adjust from the poor play call. He stands in the pocket with no urgency and seems surprised when the 6th guy, unblocked, hits him with a full head of steam. Part of blitz protection is on the QB. They need to bring a guy in, roll out away from the pressure, release the ball early, find hot reads, audible away from the play ETC Later in the game, on the play Justin got hurt, he was hit more than SIX seconds after the snap. The only reason we arent sure that Getsy and Fields are awful is that it MIGHT be all the other one's fault. Well, it's both of them.

LOL I have never seen a grown man act so butthurt about a football team in my life. Somehow the rest of us are capable of disagreeing without acting like babies. There are people on this board who think the exact opposite of me about this, and yet we arent angry at each other or making childish little remarks. I think you need to put on your big boy pants. The nature of talking about sports is that people dont agree, and they DO in fact criticize players and coaches who have such awful losing records. Oh, and Belichick is a LOT better than Eberflus. He has a depleted roster this year, but he is still one of or the best coach of all time.

no one any good would come here right now and attach themselves to this sinking ship.

I agree, but I don't see much hope that Getsy is a keeper either. We need a new QB and a new coaching staff. The question to me is whether Poles stays. I think he does, but if you have a shot at someone like Jim Harbaugh and hes gonna want more input on players, if Poles cant handle that, he can go too. We need SOMEONE who is a WINNER with VISION.

They could both be at fault too.

thanks for posting that, it does seem that Bagent underthrew that interception because he was scared he was about to be hit, and thats not good. If Fields was making his decisions as fast as Bagent is, Id keep Fields all day long, extend him etc. So really, Im just saying that Bagent shows how slow Justin is, and you cant put his slowness on the protection or WRs because Bagent managed to get the ball out more quickly in the same situations, with the same team around him, against the same defense.. That doesnt mean that Fields isnt superior in many other ways, or that I think Bagent should be the starter next year. Just Bagent proves that Fields is slow and the excuses arent the only reason. And I think it means that we'll be drafting a QB in the first round of the 2024 draft, and all that entails.

Oh Im not saying Bagent is the next coming, or even will be a good starter in the NFL - it's WAAAAY too early for that - Im just saying an undrafted rookie comes off the bench into the same game facing the same issues and manages to get the ball out significantly faster and the result is a bunch of completions. That just shows how slow Fields still is in processing. And this isnt news. You can go back and read pre draft evaluation on Fields and it says the same thing. I cant know what kind of NFL QB Williams or Bagent or Penix or Maye will be. All I know is that Fields is too slow to reliably lead an NFL team to the promised land. Im using Bagent as a way to measure Fields, not propping Bagent up as a savior.

If you truly mean what youre saying, then youre saying if you were Chiefs GM, youd trade Mahomes for Fields? Also I dont think Poles is "listening to fans" The reason Fields numbers look so good is because he played two AWFUL defenses, and still only managed to beat one. As we play more games, those aberrant numbers from a small sample size will average out. Anyone could see Bagent proved that Fields isnt doing nearly enough with what he has to work with.

Nothing is ever perfect in the NFL, but some QBs manage to win anyway. Its easier with more protection and WRs, but you could see that Bagent with the same situation, was able to get the ball out much more quickly - proving it can be done. Im not saying Bagent is the answer. hes just a kid and I havent seen anywhere near enough. Same with Williams, I know what I read, but i havent seen enough. All i know is that Fields has been in the NFL for a few seasons now, and is still slow on his read. Dexter, for example, is faster off the ball every week. Hes improving. Fields is not processing faster. Bagent was a great example of what a difference it can make. On one play, Moore came out of his break and the ball was already right there on anticipation. Fields would still be watching him come out of his break to decide if he was open or not.

I can shake your hand on that, I feel the same way. Last year I was all in on the tankathon. This year, with Carolina doing it for us, it is a tough pill to swallow.

for sure. this coaching staff sucks.

true, and if we add some dogs on the D Line, the defense will look a lot better. Totally, Whitehair is a terrible center. The best cure for a bad OL is a faster release.

So I have no crystal ball on Caleb Williams or any of the other QBs. Predicting NFL success at that position is difficult for the professionals who spend all day doing it. So I admit that. And your point about needing more on the Offensive and Defensive lines is well made. Youre right. Without consistent pass pressure, it's hard to beat good teams. We all knew this in preseason. And its glaring. We need a star pass rusher. But you seldom get a chance at a top pick to get that QB, and we have other picks, including a second first rounder, and whatever you get for Fields, and a lot of cap room coming to address those positions too. We can do both!

calm down (again)