BearFan PHX

Me too. I think we will see some decent games yet this year, and I hope our decision makers are not dumb enough to see it as a reason to keep the coaches. That has to already be clear in their minds no matter what happens next. I seriously dont care if they go on an improbable winning streak and get back into the divisional race. If Flus proves that he is not a 2 and is instead a 6 i dont care! I want a 9 or a 10. I want to try to find a 9 or a 10, and Ill consider keeping that guy if he turns out to be an 8. better than before is not the measure. Greatness is - giving your team an ongoing active edge in winning - not just managing not to step on your own dick 2 weeks in a row.

well he deserves to be gone. It makes sense to make the decision now that hes not back next year - but then you need to figure out what youre going to do between now and the offseason, and Im not sure firing Flus is the answer right now. But yeah, you have to be proceeding as if you will fire him and get a new coach next year. *IF* the new coach buys in on the defensive coaches we already have, then I would be for keeping them *BUT* no more arranged marriages. No pressures. The ehad coach is the head coach and should do whatever they want with their staff. Make it a complete vision for once. THere is nothing that is SO worth saving that is more important than a coach having their entire vision. now if the new coach realizes that we have some really good position coaches on defense and wants to keep them himself, then FINE GREAT but no more arranged marriages!!

I think part of why the frustration is so high is because expectations were high, and expectations were high because our roster is in better shape than it's been in decades. So while the current disaster is extra heartbreaking, it's because we are closer to being good than we've been. So maybe now isn't the time to find another team, but to hang on. This is the part of the story where Cinderella is cleaning the flue and can't go to the ball. This is the part that makes the ending so sweet. Im here for the ride!

right

Basically, it proves that Eberflus as a motivator is not a good head coach.

I think the most predictable next move, and maybe the wisest, is to fire Waldron. Flus bears a ton of responsibility for all of this and deserves to not be back next year, but i dont think firing him now does anything to really help. Firing Waldron sends a message, and hopefully lets this team get into some rhythm, even though i think we all know this season is very unlikely to end in a playoff appearance. I was listening to Flus with David Kaplan, and he said a few things that shed some light on all of this. First off he did his typical positives thing. And while I think it's tone deaf not to start with accountability and even show some emotion at losing at this point, he wasnt wrong. Every week we see individual offensive plays that work, and even small 5 minute windows of rhythm and then chaos again. I would say that the team has talent and Waldron and Morgan are the biggest culprits. I think it's fair to say that the offense isnt really Eberflus' fault. He's been a defensively oriented coach the whole time. His issues are situational, and failing to know how to help the offense. But the offense has failed under Waldron and Morgan, and Flus has not really been part of that - which is it's own criticism of Flus as well. Still, what happens if we bring in a new OC or promote someone and talent shows up and we split our games with the NFC north? Do we all say "wow maybe this can work?" and stay with Flus and the new offensive coaches? If the new coaches are like a 6 out of 10, does that mean we wouldnt find better under Ben Johnson or Kliff Kingsbury etc? I think we have to be careful of doing something now and then sticking with a 6 because its better than a 2. I think we need to find a 9 or a 10 and nothing less should do, even if a 7 doesnt stink. I want superbowls, not to be slightly better than average! So Id be careful and cynical about any improvements we might make with an in season move right now. The other things Flus said made it clear to me that by wednesday there would be some shakeup on the offensive side of the ball. Flus actually put a time limit on it, and not only admitted they were looking at it, but something about getting it right. So I think you can hang your hat on the idea that there will be changes. But here's my warning - the changes will almost certainly make a difference. THe offense may well improve, even win some games. But we shoult not fall in love with incremental change. We should still want Flus gone, and we should still want to pick our leaders fromt he full menu of available options during the offseason, and not now from the limited list.

I think our best (and only?) hope here is Kevin Warren. Im not saying I have any reason to have faith in him for this, just that he is heretofore unknown on these questions, other than a rumor that he was fighting with Poles last offseason, and wanted to get rid of Fus while Poles wanted to keep him. If Warren can be a buffer between ownership and these decisions AND if he sees things more the way we do, then maybe he can make a new kind of choice. I sure hope so, but I cant say its likely just because he is unknown.

your argument about not overreacting is a good one in general. the problem is that sticking with just anyone doesnt produce results either. they have to be good. Flus has proven over and over that he is not good. sticking with him will not make us better. also to your point about hindsight, a lot of us saw this last year so it wasnt hindsight then. it was 3 historical losses that were 97% to win in the last minutes. its endless situational errors with timeouts, going for it on 4th and 1 in the wrong places. its a lack of a fundamentally sound scheme through multiple coordinators. its a string of presnap penalties that reveal a lack of discipline. We could all see that. when you know what you have is substandard, thats not the time to double down for consistency. I think we need to hire based on successful characteristics instead of safe HR hires. Then we can ride with someone for a few years and see where it goes. But if hes making consistent repeated unforced errors, there is no reason to stay with that guy.

for sure

this this this. I suppose I could answer your first question with Jim Finks, but thats going back forty years. your point is still right on.

Here's a nightmare scenario. I think Caleb is still the guy we think hes gonna be, and our long term answer at QB. Tyson Bagent has some serious skills in running an offense, timing, reading defenses, getting the ball out fast. he just doesnt have superbowl winning arm talent all over him. If you sit Caleb, or he goes down with an injury for a few weeks, and Bagent steps in and makes the bad offense work and look good - even though we all know theres a ceiling on how far that could go - imagine the articles and discussions. This is a GIANT mess that was 100% foreseeable. I heard credible rumors that Warren and Poles were arguing over this, and Warren wanted Flus gone, and Poles was being loyal and made the decision to keep him. I would not be mad if Poles got fired and Cunningham took over. Im not sure which of them is the brains anyway. Watching Poles want to pull the trigger on trading up with the Giants for Odunze at pick #5, (costing us one of our two second rounders next year) and seeing Cunningham tell him to chill out and stick with the plan makes me really wonder. And Cunningham did it so skillfully like asking instead of telling "what do you really want here" etc - almost like Poles was a child? At least that day under all the pressure. Ive worried about this loyalty problem from Poles for a while too. We REALLY didnt need to be here, we could have hired another coach. Harbaugh or not, we could have hired Kingsbury or anyway. We probably could have hired Kingsbury as OC!

sounds like a decent possibility. I also agree, I don't really want to see Eberflus fired right now, unless the INTERIM HC is promoted from within. THe worst thing we could do is to get in bed with someone long term right now and miss out on all the good choices who currently have jobs on other teams. Eberflus deserves to be fired right now, Poles oughtta be at that decision point right now, but doing it right now is just more chaos than it is worth I think. Its a dangerous idea, but if i was Poles and I knew that Flus would be gone, I might think about leaking a rumor through three people to get back to Caleb that Flus is gone in a way that Caleb cant KNOW it, but can get the message anyway as a likely rumor or something. Its the sort of thing you do through a players manager if they HAD one.

Nate Davis is a pussy. He stole millions from us. And you know who's fault that is... Poles. Poles has done a lot of good things, but he's missed a lot too. Especially on Eberflus. I am not at all convinced we wouldn't be better off with Ian Cunningham. I wish I could find my post on Poles when he decided to stay with Eberflus in January. I predicted all of this. Not saying I said it WOULD happen, not claiming a crystal ball, but I said IF we were bad, then this would be what we thought of him and his decisions. Basically said winning this year would make 2022 and 2023 go away, and Claypool, Velus etc. But that if Eberflus presided over a collapse, people wouldnt just be calling for Fuls' head, but Poles' too. And bringing the losses last year into the pattern if not the whole thing, fair or not. And I think that's where we are now, or soon will be. Maybe the Bears will fire Waldron this week. Or add someone to Morgan's position. Something incremental like that.

If we get another HR department head coach I will become a Packers fan. OK no i wont. But damn.

This is where I'm at too. i think either by shceme or effort, the WRs havent been open much and the OL has been a sieve. Not that there isnt blame for Caleb too - but I dont think he is the weak link, and still has a very bright future with the right coaches. yup. 100%. gotta fire the coaches and see what a guy like Kliff Kingsbury could do with Caleb. I see the one read offense he has at washington and it's doing great because the playcalling rhythm is so good. Caleb would be doing much better than even Daniels has with a guy like that I believe.

This was a team loss. Everything was terrible. Im not ready to abandon Caleb, but he is playing poorly today along with everyone else. We surely have no momentum.

Oh I totally agrtee on that play, and the sack later - it looks like hes holding it too long. The all 22 will confirm, but right now, I agree thats what it looks like. It was the "clearly the main problem" I was responding to. On that play? Likely. Overall? Way too soon in my opinion.

also, Ive been watching Bates - hes been great on every play so far

youre obviously right, we should have kept Justin like you said. I get the idea that youre the eternal optimist, and so you dont like to criticize in season, but what is this? I mean youre entitled to whatever opinion you want of course, but are you really going negative this early on our rookie QB? I totally agree he held the ball to long there by the way. I will wait for the all 22 to be sure who was or wasnt open, but I also agree it looked like Swift was available. Keep in mind that Eberflus has had 3 years, and made similar unforced erorrs over and over. Caleb is still very early. If he looks like this in year 3, I will be saying we need to move on from him. But it's early for him in ways that it isn't for Eberflus. So this isnt all negative or all positive as some kind of default - its each player or coach in proper time

we start off like this: Borom - Jenkins - Shelton - Bates - Pryor so we think Bates / Pryor is better than Pryor / Curhan Makes sense.

OK, I am really interested to see the OL, especially Bates. Bates was the first player out of the tunnel. I dunno what to read into that if anything. Davis is ruled out, so we will continue to be seeing more of the options we have. Thats good for the future whether they are good or horrible. We need to know what we have. LETS GO BEARS!

thats a good guess. other possibility is Borom - Jenkins - Bates - Pryor - Curhan or even Borom - Jenkins - Shelton - Pryor - Bates or Curhan Bates might not even start. I sure dont know. But they do have options.

yeah, why havent we been doing that from the beginning. Seems like Waldron sees Xs and Os but doesnt consider personnel. Also there are a lot of plays where WRs are in the same area. Thats either bad coaching because the play isnt sound, or its bad coaching because players dont know where to be.

I wouldnt be shocked if he waited until the end of the year, we agree. But I dont think everyone is waiting for more to know which way things are headed. I think if youre Poles youve already seen enough - but now we read that Poles is definitely keeping him next year - so i dunno. If thats true its insane. To already know youre keeping him? Yikes.

that video is wrong in my opinion. PFF stats, then hes talking about 3 second holding the ball (I timed it it was 2.6) but its a 5 step drop so of course it takes longer. And you need to see the all 22 to know if anyone was open. If you watch the film the OL has been trash a lot. I dont buy that video at all. Not sure who the guy posting it even is?