BearFan PHX

depends what they gave for him I guess

Yeah this time of year everything is changing, and we get one narrative from the media that seems to recirculate, and then we sometimes get pieces of info that clarify the picture. The good news is the staff knows these players much better than the media or we can, so i guess from our points of view its all still dynamic, and it speaks well of you that you can take in new info and change your mind - a lot of people cant do that, and not just in football but all kinds of things. Ive been watching all 22 film on The Tape Never Lies channel, and it has reenforced my feelings on some players and completely changed my mind on others. And I still dont know even a fraction of what Poles does (or should!).

I've been watching all 22 film, and I gotta say I do not like Skoronski at all. There are a bunch of OTs I like better than him. I realize that this is counter to the prevailing narrative right now in the media, so i expect it will sound stupid to most of you, but I'm watching the tape, and I don't see the explosion in his blocks. He is often in bad position, and cant absorb his opponent's energy, getting pushed back or folded over. he doesnt attack with a strong hit, but catches opponents instead. He is not a HITS guy. And I assume the Bears are looking at the tape too, and from my point of view, seeing the same things.

probably right stinger

Mauch is not a first round pick at all, but later near the bottom of the second would be a great place to pick him up.

RJ is a physical beast. He doesnt have the finesse and polish that PJJ has on the left side, but he has the physical tools to make any coach drool. Think Big Cat Williams. There are lots of intriguing OTs this year, and RJ is definitely on that list.

I think we are working options, and the trade down for Darnell Wright is definitely one of them.

I agree with all of that, but for example, is Kancey for real? Any edge rushers that might be there?

I think we need to be looking for at least one blue chipper. We could take this year to build depth, but next year a lot of these guys could be replaced by our first round picks. So why bother to build depth as job one? I love getting more picks, and I know that for some positions taking them at 9 instead of say, 14, is overpaying, but who cares if youre going to miss out on them by 17? Maybe they will show me that I am wrong about Carter, and take the player. Id sure love to see him thrive - but again, Im getting excited about the position, not the player, not the value. I wish there was a perfect 3T out there who fit the value at 9, or maybe 6 and fell because of QBs. I do see what everyone else sees - that the value is right for a choice of OTs at that point, and OT is certainly a position of need. But I wish we had more to look at on the DL, both 3T and pass rushers for that 9 pick.

I was thinking RT of course. Mauch is not an NFL LT for sure, and maybe youre right about RT too

and Mauch is NASTY too

yes. camp leg

lol @ the ankles Like I said before, Im more interested in the position than the guy. Maybe we'll draft Carter, and then well all get behind that and hope he kicks ass. I just think our situation at the DL is really bare, especially at 3T, and Kancey looks like he can do something. I imagine Edmunds cleaning up the run issues, and Fields scoring points so we need a pass rush at 3T. Billings will eat up the run from the other DT. He is the Fridge DT, and the 3T is the McMichael position. He was small too as I recall? Kancey is the same size as Zorich too. he's a classic undersized "go" tackle.

yeah but a player is much more than their measurables for sure. AA isn't in the same class as Kancey. Kancey is a tremendous football players. also, if you do want to talk about measurables, Kancey's RAS is elite.

if they value Kancey, I agree you drop down to take him, but I think hes gone by about pick 20. So if you think he's Aaron Donald, and you can grab him at, say, pick 12 or 13, do you really care if people say you reached by not paying the perfect price for him? Alternatively, if short arms or something make you back off of him, then you probably shouldnt take him as your first pick in this draft at all. 2nd round, sure. The film I've seen makes me really want him, but I will defer to the Bears front office on that decision of course. It feels good to say that - it hasnt always been the case...

yeah like I said, I dunno. Whatever our scouts say is good with me. but I cant help hoping that he is the 3T we need. I guess I am reacting more to the hole at the position than the actual player. We need a dominant 3T for this defense. Without a pass rush, anyone can beat zone coverage given enough time. Like everyone else, I want to see a blue chip OT added to this roster too, and i know how important Fields' development this year is. But i also know that until we have our 3T, we arent really a threat to do anything. We need both. I cant wait to see how Poles figures this out.

Sometimes undersized 3Ts are the best. Aaron Donald, John Randle and Warren Sapp come to mind. Now I surely cant say if Kancey will be one of those or just an undersized washout. That's up to our scouts, Flus and Poles to figure out. But if they say yes, Im all in on Kancey. His film is awesome, and his production in college was great. I can say I want an actual 3T at 3T, and not an end who came inside on passing downs to be converted.

I think Kancey might go earlier than expected.

Yeah that would be amazing. Just got all the right guys.

I think if the 3T goes first, and its not Carter (who Im not sold on) then maybe we'd trade down and take a guy like Kancey at 15 or 20 ish Or, it could be an edge rusher too. Maybe even at 9. But i agree the odds of taking an OT at 9 are pretty high. Its just that you wont find a starter at 3T in the 2nd round, but you might find a starter at RT there.

this is what Ive been jabbering on about for weeks LOL I totally agree. The OTs at 53 are better than the 3Ts at 53.

I think youre dead on.

I agree. In terms of the roster, we need RT and 3T most. But if youre picking a Tackle at pick #9, youre probably getting a LT for that price. And that could leave Jones who is more finesse than power out of position, and us still needing a RT. That's why i say dont sleep on 3T. But if it isnt Carter, pick 9 might be a little early for Kancey, and does Bresee really even fit our scheme? So then you look at a pass rusher, and youve taken a BPA, added to your pass rush, but you STILL have a hole at RT and 3T. It's a riddle for sure. I wonder if we might make a trade for a player to move down too.

I have to agree with you. It's possible a rookie OT plays RT this year, and then moves over to LT next year with Jones as the bridge year while the rookie learns. That's a decent roadmap depending on the player, how ambidextrous they are, if they are complete or better at pass protection than run blocking etc etc. But generically speaking, if we cant afford two OL that are better than Jones this year, I think your scenario is entirely plausible. Jones could also be the one to move to RT, if we only get one starting caliber OT, although I don't think he is particularly "nasty" in the run game. And we still need some fear inducing studs on the D line too. Seriously, if we can get some pass pressure from the front 4, and keep Justin clean, this team is ready to win now in the other areas. But doing both of those things this year is a tall order. Cant wait to see how Poles solves this riddle, this year and next.

I think you just pick based on ability. I wouldnt worry to much about "losing" the value of a 5th round pick last year in the equation. That's a sunk costs fallacy. I just think you put the best players out there you can get and afford, and if that makes Jones a top tier backup then so be it. I dont hate Jones or anything (not like I hated Leno!) hes an OK LT, but i just think that if you can put PJJ there, then thats an upgrade. And if you can snag Mauch I think hes a better RT. Maybe you can trade Jones and get more than a 5th for him? I would make choices based on best players going into the future rather than maximizing last years' draft value. HOWEVER, if they think Jones is really good, as good as PJJ, then by all means they should keep him and pick another position! But not cuz you got him cheap, but because hes really good.