BearFan PHX

maybe thats been the way to lose games while building talent? you gotta admit we were the best 3 win team youve ever seen last year.

well they did trade more value for Moore (his value in the trade was equal to another first round pick) than Claypool (a 2nd round pick) AND they are paying Moore a lot more money than either Mooney or Claypool. So he's right. He's WR1. But hell yes it ought to light a fire under Mooney and Claypools butts! They each had a moment where they could have taken the WR1 job, and neither did. I hope it makes them mad. I hope they fight like dogs to be sure they arent #3, and to try to be #1. This is great. This competition will make them all better.

good points. Eddie Goldman is a good reminder of what players that arent committed can become. The thing is, at some point, taking Carter becomes a no brainer - but where is that? pick 20? 2nd round? pick 8? lol

guess he ran out of money. I wouldnt trust him as a teammate at all.

hahaha yes, and we will both have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight too lol but to be fair, its his job, and what he does all day, so he better get it right. I guess what i was saying before is that if he doesnt take Carter, and both Carter and the player Poles drafts both turn out to be excellent players, that's OK too?

that's fair, and I dont know any more than you do.

Carter is a rare physical specimen, no doubt about it - but his production doesnt match his skills. I dont think he is motivated to get to his full potential. I dont believe in him as the pick. But this is a timeless kind of question, and good people will see it differently. In a few years we will know whether Carter dominates the NFL or not. If we take him, Im gonna root my ass off for him, and hope he becomes that game wrecker. That will be fun to watch. He absolutely has it in him to take over the league. But Im not sure he wants it bad enough to work for it. So I just feel more comfortable with Tyree Wilson with the pick, for example.

if that's an option, I totally agree.

I hope so too! I had read this in the most recent report I saw. It was new info to me. I couldnt for the life of me find the article now. Who knows? Everything is a smokescreen. I can say that Todd McShay was reporting that his coaches were saying privately that they question his love for the game. Also, for a guy with such dominant tools, his production wasn't on par with his ability. Watch the National Championship game - he didnt particularly stand out. I'll take Tyree Wilson or the next best 3T instead.

one more point - Angelos floor was about ability. I dont question Carters ability - I question his heart and commitment.

there are overly safe plays, and unnecessary risks. the trick is knowing one from the other. Are you going on record saying you'd take Carter? I keep thinking of Eddie Goldman, and Roquan and a few others who's hearts werent in it?

Yeah the key here is to get someone that WILL play well for you, even if that means passing on a possible stud who MIGHT pan out. I mean, let's say he had no red flags, and was everyones consensus #1, and lets say that we knew he was gonna be available at #9, if he got hit by a bus and killed the week before the draft, it's not like the Bears couldnt win a Superbowl, or many of them, as a result. So if we whiff on a generational 3T, but gain a quality starter who contributes a lot to wins, that's fine. That's all you NEED to do. It's safer to pass on him, or better yet someone takes him before us, and we snag another player who has a great career.

I still think it'll be Davis on the right side, and Davis is PLENTY nasty! Maybe Poles will surprise us and put Davis at RG and Jenkins at RT. Or maybe Poles doesnt trust Jenkins' head and injuries, and hes a backup or trade bait.

I think it's fine to NOT take guys who end up being great. That doesnt really hurt you. Most players go to other teams, so that's normal. What hurts you is missing on the guys you DO take. So if Poles takes a player who turns out to be excellent, but Carter turns into Aaron Donald, while sportswriters will talk about what we missed, all that matters is how our team plays. The bigger risk here is taking Carter and having him flame out. That would hurt us, wasting a top 10 draft pick. But if we take another player who plays well, then it deosnt matter that we didnt get Carter, even if he becomes a great player.

Mauch looks like a beast. I trust Poles' evaluations are better than mine. But if he likes Mauch too, I'm gonna be thrilled.

I think we need to put more talent on the DL. We could roll with what we have on the OL, and RT wouldnt be a strength, but if we dont generate pass rush, all the coverage in the world isnt gonna help. If we put someone on the DL that can get consistent pressure, this team is a winner. If we put it at RT, we will perform better on offense, but lose more high scoring games. Poles will surely address both, but as for the 9th pick, i think it has to go to the DL. If you have a great 3T on your list, you gotta take him. And Ill be thrilled if it isn't Carter, and our scouts fell in love with someone else at 3T. But if the DT value isnt there, and you cant trade down, the RT from Northwestern sure does look good. I would love both, but we gotta look at 3T.

he may well still have a future, but i think he was picked out of desperation for last year. If he becomes more than that, then great.

I think we needed someone to take the top off of the defense, so Fields would have a chance of growing. We didnt have much cap space or draft capital to do it, so we reached on Velus. He may still become a decent player for us, but if he doesnt, he is a relic of the situation we were in. As we become more complete and sustainable, we shouldnt see reaches like that in the 3rd round any more. Also, in the future, I wont be upset if Poles takes some flyers on high risk high upside players, and I expect a decent percentage of them to fail. The way to judge Poles starting this year is wins and losses, not to nit pick over every player he chooses, since we know they wont all make the team as our roster gets stronger.

and he could extend players too. Plus if needed more money, he could restructure Eddie Jackson and/or cut or restructure Whitehair.

yes, and you might even package two of the low seconds (or the low second and top third) to move to the top part of the second round. But I like your idea of the swap, very creative. For sure, Poles has some flexibility in a draft that is deep at the areas we need help in. He has shown himself to be a shrewd wheeler dealer. Now we just need to talent evaluations on the OL and DL to be right.

That's what it looks like. And if for some odd reason Fields doesnt progress, you can pick up a top QB next year and have a stocked team waiting for him to grow into.

real gay, fake twitter lol

Oh cool! I thought it was part of the ongoing debate here about whether he can play DT full time!

The chart is excellent, but i think DeMarcus Walker is a DE, not a DT. He never played any 1st down DT, only passing downs moving a DE inside for pure pass rush.

nasty!