BearFan PHX

I think that with a basically wide open cap, with very few exceptions, the players we have are just more free agent options to Poles. If there is someone out there that isnt a top price guy, but Poles thinks is better than Jones, then he could take him instead. I think wholesale change is possible at almost every position, especially on the OL and DL. Anything is possible. Trying to see what we have and build off of it isnt really the right way to look at this. Sure, we see the same high priced big names, but in filling out around them, it could be a guy we have on the roster, or it could be someone else. Anywhere. A - In football the best thing you can have is great players signed to long term deals. B - The next best thing is to have no one signed, and lots cap room and picks. C - The worst thing is to have not great players signed to long terms deals. Most teams are stuck between B and C. We are firmly at B. We've been living at C trying to reorganize the pieces we have and bring in a few new guys. We really are at B right now, so we dont have to even think like that. For example, is Whitehair good? Sure. He's OK. You might think he is a piece to build around. You think "well hes Ok, and we already have him, so we will spend our money elsewhere." But Whitehair's 2023 cap number is $14 Million. 8 of that is dead money. Is there another player ont he Ol who is comparable or better that we can get for $6M? What about $9M? Better than $14M going forward? So what looked like a piece you could keep is possibly replaceable with a non big name. Or look at Jones. Hes making Rookie 5th round money. A great deal, but is there someone at $7M a year who might be better? We all know Orlando Jones is out there. A big name. Say you get him, and think "we will move Jones to RT" but is there a non big name for $6M who would play better at RT? This is why Im saying be cautious of assuming ANYONE on this roster is safe. They are just low level Free Agent options just like the ones that arent on our roster but are on Poles' list. No one is safe. (Fields, Brisker & Gordon aside)

perfectly said. 100%. "Down the road we could be in shock to see a good player cut or traded a year earlier than we expect. " THIS - this is the sign of a roster that isnt playing catch up. Instead of trying to milk the last bit of something you already have, you trade it for picks and keep the pipeline primed. New England has done this for 20+ years. In the end, it really is more like a College team - some of your biggest stars are going to leave. You need to be developing the depth behind them to keep it going. Ride too many horses for too long, and you lose the traded draft picks, and who ever you did draft didnt develop behind them. Thats when you get into the trade next years pick to try to fill a desperate hole this year, and you sink into hell. This crappy season was the PRICE to get back into rhythm. And the sign that it is working will be when we trade good players we've drafted who are looking promising going into their contract year. Like Roquan, or how we got Akeem Hicks when youre on the wrong side of things.

smart. Im thinking the extra 2024 first rounder gets Fields his true #1 WR, but you're right, it might also get his replacement. Im a Fields fan, i think its all coming for him, so Im keeping him. But I mentioned earlier, there is a scenario where you trade Fields this year for 2 firsts and a 2nd or more, and then you take a QB this year with our first, and you still have another first this year, and two next year. Poles didnt draft Fields. I think we all think we should stay with Fields, but this is a scenario you have to do due diligence on.

I agree. I think we upgrade the OL, but probably dont have anyone better than Claypool as our #1 next year. With Claypool, Mooney and one other, defenses wont be able to double them all, so hopefully we are adequate. If Poles finds a trade for a stud WR, I will be truly impressed. But if he doesn't, that will be job #1 for 2024 on a team that is already gelling.

we are going to be MUCH better next year, but I hope they take the long view on everything. I dont want to lose a single playoff game, and then pat ourselves on the back as we slide back into the slime. I want to build a sustainable program, where we arent in the "we better do it this year" mode, so that we can be in the hunt every year. We are going to be good next year, and the superbowl window opens in 2024. Is it possible they will get there early? It is! But that shouldnt be the design if any decision has a short term upside vs a long term one.

I agree, but for all intents and purposes this wasnt Poles' first year, it was Pace's last one. The majority of our 2022 salary cap went to: Khalil Mack, Robert Quinn, Roquan Smith, Nick Foles, Eddie Goldman, Andy Dalton, Jimmy Graham, Tariq Cohen, Charles Leno, Danny Trevathan, Mario Edwards, Germaine Ifedi and many more. That's not Poles' doing. He has had very little to work with, and has put several starters on the field for not much $. This coming offseason is when his true grade begins.

If you truly think one of the DL is a generational talent, they you take him. And it's not that hard to evaluate a top 5 generational talent. All you do is take a random 12 year old boy, and watch a bowl game that the player is in. Dont tell the boy anything. If, at the end of the game, the kid is begging for a jersey of that player, then you know they are a generational talent. If you have to analyze small pieces of film to find out, they arent. They might become a great player, but they are not a sure thing if they dont stand out like that. I dont think either of the DL is a generational talent. Certainly not the Georgia DT. Given that there is no obvious blue chipper available, and the value of the 2nd pick is bound to be huge, so I think it's a trade. If you can get a 2024 first rounder in there, you can package it to move up to grab Harrison in 2024. If you can get an extra first this year too, then you take the next DL on the list, and a stud OL or one of the WRs. Mathematically, there is one other possibility. If you think one of the rookie QBs is the next Payton Manning / Tom Brady / etc, you could probably trade Fields for 2 firsts and more. Then use our 2nd overall to pick the QB, grab DL with the traded first, and use the other first in 2024 to snag Harrison. Im not saying I choose this outcome, I like Fields, but if you dont think he will ever become the passer you want, and you think one of the QBs is the man, this is a possibility.

He needed a WR, and took a shot on a fast guy. He didnt pay too much for Claypool, there are not a lot of WRs available, and we need some. Ogun was injured. That's not on Poles. I think the real judgement on Poles will come after this offseason, but right now, I think he's doing fine, with the big test yet to come.

I am sure that Poles thinks differently about OL than his predecessors. And I think even the dumbest GM would know that we have to overhaul THIS OL. It looks terrible.

OK, we are terrible. We have no OL, no WR and no Defense. This is what half a salary cap looks like on the field. And for several weeks I've been rooting to lose. I want to look good doing it (boy we sure didnt today) but I wanted to lose. Thats how bad we are. I was thinking about draft order by week 7. That's earlier than the 85 Bears put out the Super Bowl Shuffle. Here's what I'm trying to say. I don't EVER want to be here again. I don't EVER want this team to look this impotent. I am willing to take this crappy season as the price of entry. We've all said it. If we had somehow kept Nagy and Pace and they made the identical moves, we'd be SCREAMING. I mean, we already were for two years before, but I digress LOL The point is we are giving Poles and Flus this year to do this. And we are being extremely patient. But it must be said that today was ATROCIOUS. It hurt to watch. It hurts inside to see it. We will win games and we will lose games int he future, but we should NEVER EVER look like this again. That's what we are supposed to be buying with the price of this season. We paid the price, we'd better see what we bought. So you all know, Ive been a "lose and get the pick" guy. But I also need to express how shitty this looked today. How embarrassing, how unacceptable. The Chicago Bears without a defense is a perversion. Damn I hope they get this right, because I want payback next year and continuing for at least a decade after the last 25 years we have all been through.

I agree with all that about Fields. The stat itself was a little bit misleading. But hey, a TD is a TD, and they give you 6 points either way.

I agree, this wasnt new tonight, its been said a lot. Verrrry interesting.

I didnt see Jalen Carter take over the defense when it mattered to win the game. Trade down is looking better and better to me.

2024 - he's saying build defense in 2023 and the OL, bring in a FA WR, and then draft Harrison next year. Of course there's no guarantee, but if it worked out like that, Id be thrilled, and wed be very dangerous indeed.

I think this, more than anything else, is the main reason we wont have Adams here. And there are major other reasons like Adams' contract and cap hit to the Raiders. But if they add in next year's #1, that could work, because we could package it to go get Harrison Jr. And let Harrison learn one year under Adams before we cut Adams for 2025. Bears give pick #1 or #2 Raiders give Pick #9, Adams, next years #1 and a 3rd or 4th this year could work. And might be worth it for them to snag their QB. But my point is the Raiders would need to add a LOT more than just Adams to the #9 pick to make it worth it.

To be fair, Rogers has 24 Passing TDs to Field's 16. The reason they can say that is because of the TDs Fields rushed for too. But you know what? Give the man an OL and someone to catch the ball, and lets see if he isnt every bit as good throwing AND can run like that.

Amen. And I think it's going to get better faster than even you are saying. I think he could easily be All Pro next year.

A bigger better Marvin Harrison sounds great. If that's what he is, and we can get him, then the Century of Bears dominance begins! LOL In all seriousness though, if Poles does this right, there is no reason a team can't perennially be a contender - especially if you have your QB. You have to be a great talent evaluator, and you have to be willing to trade good players in their prime at times, but there are models of franchises that are competitive year in and out for decades. You need to keep all the holes filled, but you also need a few superstars. One has to be at QB. Got him. You need a great WR too, and a top five impact player on defense. if you have that, you can build around the rest. Add in some dogs on the OL and CB, and youre in it every year. And if you get into that kind of cycle, you will have other great players coming in and out of roles as well. And some of those are the ones you trade in year 4 to get the next crop in. Lets hope we get in step with that kind of rhythm. We need that next great WR for sure. Fields to Irvin/Moss/Harrison/etc v2.0

interesting, or they could eat Devante's trade. I still dont think the Bears would be getting enough without next years #1 from them as well as the 9th pick, and Devante, and probably some 2023 picks too 3rd or 4th round at least

Agree. THis is how it looks to me too. Mustipher is lost too many times. He just isnt an Offensive Lineman.

I think its a matter of technique at that point. like he probably has the right raw strength, but he isnt playing the game well. Also he seems to not know who to block a lot.

Id even settle for having the breaking of the huddle be PIP, just so i could see it! Then again, I often watch with the sound off. Living in NYC for years, I used to go to sports bars to see the games in the 90s and 00s, and they always had the sound from some other game on the PA, and I learned to watch it without announcers. Now, with the sound off, the whole thing is so much easier to watch. Occasionally, I will miss and injury piece of info or something, but then again, i dont need to hear the announcer repeat some national press troupe that isnt true and makes no sense. Truthfully, you can predict everything the announcers are going to say. If I watch a game with a woman, I will almost always be saying some stupid cliche to her (probably showing off I guess lol) about 10 seconds before the announcer says it. I dont think that means im smart. I think it means me and the announcers are both cheesy cliches hahaha "You know honey, the ground cant cause a fumble" or "one knee equals two feet" etc etc lol

Ok, in looking at sporttrac details, here are the hard numbers. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/las-vegas-raiders/davante-adams-14463/ If no post-June 1st designation, the Raiders would have to carry $31.4 Million dollars on their cap in dead space for 2023 if they trade him to us. If they do not trade or cut him, he will cost them $14M on their cap. So they'd have to find an additional $17M in cap room just to get rid of him. If they keep him, then their new QB, whoever he is, has a great target to throw to, and you can spend that $17M on additional players too. On our side, it's a great deal. He gets $11M the first year, $16M or so the second year, and then you have to cut him, because he jumps up to $35M after that, or you restructure. And he will be old then too. So while you get a great 2 year rental on an exceptional WR, he leaves just when Justin needs him most. It's an interesting idea, but I dont think the Raiders can afford it, and I dont think the Bears get enough value (2 years of Devante at half price) in exchange for moving down from pick 1 or 2 to pick 9. If Devante was 25, this might all look different.

if the cap were no object, they might trade Devante for a top pick if they believe a QB in the draft is the next Tom Brady. That makes good sense. But when you factor in Devante's contract is only one year old and the cap hit for trading him now, it becomes basically impossible this year. You'd have to gut the whole team even worse than Poles has for us. In fact, Im not even sure they could cut enough guys to get Devante's trade cap hit under the cap at all. It may even be mathematically impossible, or close to it.