BearFan PHX

Exactly. When your team is full of bad players, you are constantly 3 and out, and losing time of possession. When your team throws for over 300 yards and you only get 10 points out of it that is 100% COACHING. When you are trying to lean on Grant as a #1 WR, that is a bad coaching decision.

if we went down this path, then now's the time to do it. The new GM needs time to get to know the situation, do their homework on the roster etc before they can really do the coaching hire the right way. Then again, you're probably gonna end up with one of the two guys being discussed, and fit the roster to them over the next few years anyway, so while the due dilligence might be extensive, the final decision probably isn't all that hard.

Or another scenario, you can fire them both now, and let the new GM have the advantage of week 17 and 18 interviews.

amen. plus, what if they HAD fired Nagy? So what? They are woefully over their heads and always have been.

I agree 100%, Im just saying these people are awful at it, at least most billionaire owners had to succeed at something to get that way before buying the team and meddling.

So does Andy Reid. And nothing happens on the Patriots that Belichick doesnt agree with too.

I agree. Fields knows they are clowns. He will wait it out, until either a better coach/GM/front office shows up, of he plays through his rookie deal and goes to a good team. Meanwhile, if this is true, it shows George meddling where he shouldnt. Whether you agree with the decision or not, you dont move forward by having a wrong coach who is forced into a few right moves by ownership. ANd thats the most positive way to view it, thats if you 100% agree with the decision. If you dont, its even worse. SELL THE TEAM.

the only problem with the "Head Coach just does the head coach stuff, and get a great OC" mindset, which I agree is logical, is that great OCs get snatched away as head coaches. If you want to hire a man to run your offense (or defense) for a long time, and you thibnk that man is one of the rare few that gives you an edge over the other professional coaches, then youve got to hire him as a head coach or you cant keep him. And this sets up the weird Head Coach as coordinator issue that we see through the league. it tends to work best when the HC is a tyrant and keeps control of things, and less well when the head coach is a "be you, were all teammates" kind of guy. Becasue how can you have a teammate OC and overrule him all the time? And anyway, regarding Nagy, he may be a professional, but he does not give your offense an edge, and so he is replaceable with any professional and you will get at least the same results. Of course we want better than that. I like the OC in Buffalo. Greg Roman is intriguing too.

yeah, he is leftover from the QB search. But the roster is pretty solid overall, injuries nothwithstanding. You can make arguments about wasted money, Trevathan comes to mind going into next year, but if you allow the guy his own process, and just judge the roster results, Pace is doing a pretty good job.

They sure are. Pace on the other hand is looking good for having both Dalton and Fields on the roster. A new owner is coming soon, and when better, than a year where the GM and coach's contracts are up. And maybe THAT is why they extended Pace and Nagy?

yes

I guess the doctors were saying there was some chance to avoid the surgery, and maybe it would respond to physical therapy, so theyd have him back more quickly than IR would allow?

Toub is definitely a leader of men. I suspect that GMs are hoping that a head coach will bring some coordinator magic with them. Theoretically, a head coach should run the team, and not be a coordinator, but the problem with that model is that if you have a guy you think is an offensive or defensive genius, someone is going to hire them away as a head coach. If your genius IS your head coach then you get to keep him as long as you like (or are willing to pay him). But yeah, for 99% of the all the coaches in the NFL, this isnt rocket science, and as I said in an earlier post, coordinator geniuses are rare, and usually they get figured out pretty quick anyway, so any competent coordinator can provide a professional product. So a real leader like Toub, could be an effective head coach even without any offensive or defense "magic" which Im saying doesnt really exist anyway, or not for long (excepting Belichick). Of course by this argument, Nagy might be a good head coach too, if he focuses on that aspect and not trying to out trick 100 years of football offense. We've all seen this before. Trestman, Shoop, Crowton - they all had special sauce. In some cases it never worked. But even in the best cases, like Sean McVey, who invented a wrinkle that totally confused the NFL for about 10 months, then the Ravens came in and totally shut it down, and within a couple weeks,. the whole league figured out how to beat it. Same with Lovie. The Tampa Two was dominant for a while, but then the league figured it out. So if there is no such thing as a consistent genius coordinator who outperforms the league year in and year out, then maybe the best thing is to forget that dream, and get a head coach who can lead men. And that is a good argument for Toub.

I think you always know your own team best. We see assistants on other teams and think "THERE's a guy" and while we know the downsides of our guys, because we are so familiar with them, often all we know of the other guys are the highlight clips etc. I think most of them on the league are competent, meaning they are professionals. I suspect there are hundreds more people just as qualified who arent coaching in the NFL. The trick is to find the ones that are special, the ones who make a different and get you wins. And that is a VERY short list indeed, and those guys are almost never available. So you try to find someone you think MIGHT have promise to become one of those guys. ANd if they dont, you fire them and do it again. And all the while the odds are low that you will find Bill Belichick. So yeah, DeFilippo and Desai are on that list, because all the other guys on the list are competent but unspectacular too.

interesting. I still think Jenkins will play Left Guard this year, allowing Whitehair to move to center.

My guess is he goes to LG, and Whitehair moves to Center.

put him at left guard and move whitehair to center?

I do believe that some refs are petty tyrants. I do believe that some refs seek ego satisfaction and even revenge against certain players for personal reasons. I do not believe the refs try to throw a game for one team or another, or that the league is involved in anything like that.

+1

Right. Good player development, but with those ingredients, the chefs couldnt win it. Fire Nagy, but for sure keep some of the players on this team.

I think all the good influence that Nagy had on the Chiefs offense is starting to fade. But I mean, he set them up for several years of dominance. Hes a genius. Be you!

exactly. that is a real bright spot. Now if we can just replace mustipher...

yes, I agree.

I think we saw our team today. We saw the strengths, the weaknesses - the roster. For the first time we could see it because the game plan and play calling was regular. It wasnt inspired and genius, but it wasnt random and illogical. It was regular football. We have a way to go, and Fields has to keep developing. But if anything is clear from today, it is that you could see FOOTBALL for the first time since Nagy was here. Not overly cute fancy and out of rhythm calls. We have a lot to fix before we will be a contender, but there is no reason for Nagy to even return.

I just called... to say... you're fired.