BearFan PHX

F*ck yes. "grown-man, in-your-face, physical football" YES.

thats how I feel too - but last year a touchback was to the 25, now theyre bringing it out to the 35. At first glance that seems too much to me.

So I guess it is official that this year a touchback comes out to the 35 yard line instead of the 25. This is a huge incentive to kick the ball in play. Right now I dont like it, but Ill give it time. I was very concerned about the dynamic kickoff when it was first introduced, but it has turned out fine, and I havent seen too many cheap touchdowns, so cool. Thoughts about a 35 yard touchback?

maybe he has cancer and hes having it treated, or maybe he had a drug relapse. We have no idea whether its a good reason or a bad one, and Im not guessing at it either. Im just saying, the team has to go on, and I hope he comes back and can play himself on to the practice squad or something, but until he does, the team has to go on. I would view this very differently if Im his family member than if i am the GM. Its not being cold hearted, its just realistic. Of course I hope the young man is OK, but not everyone gets to play NFL football either.

I agree with this. I'm sympathetic to the players as people, but there is nothing that says they deserve their job either. i think in such a competitive business, you have to be there for the team. It's ok for a player to decide they dont want to play football and be with their family of course, but its ok for the team to move on from them too.

ok, we can agree to disagree

yeah, thats truly strange

Im saying if they are close, and their weaknesses are different, you go with your 2nd round pick. I think everyone in the locker room knows Jones has a weakness for bullrushes. Remember a few years ago when we started all the rookie DBs? There was no scandal. If Jones is clearly better then sure, but if its close, Trapilos got the job.

and what if 71 is gonna be a 76 by midseason because hes getting experience, whereas Jones is already experienced and not getting better? Teams play rookies all the time, and they know the rookies need some trial by fire, so they are necessarily not seasoned when they start?

right! They get to see the situations they need without exposing the players to additional snaps like in a game when youre waiting for scenarios to happen.

cool - I dont think its that big of a deal, but it certainly isnt wrong or anything.

If Braxton is a lot better than Trapilo of course he will start, but if it's close, like Trapilo is a little rough, but Braxton is weak on the bull rush Trapilo has a little trouble to the outside, but Braxton's issue is up the middle, and let's say Braxton is a 73 and Trapilo is a 71 then Trapilo will get the job. Unless Braxton is a beast like weve never seen him be before, he is not getting a second contract, and they will let Trapilo play because he is more likely to get better over the season than Jones.

I agree, the scrimmages are very important. But I think it's less about protecting tape and secrets, and more about putting your players in scripted and controlled situations to see what you need to see, avoid exposing them to injury on reps that arent worth it. You get what you need to get, rather than hoping it comes up in a game. And you dont need to risk players on any extra plays. I wouldnt be shocked to see the #1s out there in the game for one series, and i wouldnt be shocked if they dont play at all either. We'll see how Johnson wants to play it, but I wouldnt expect a quarter or a half from the #1s when as you say the scrimmages are already so valuable.

how do you know that? i contend that if Jones is slightly better than Trapilo he will still play Trapilo so that Trapilo grows and the line gets experience going forward into the future. They're building toward a Superbowl, and so every decision has to be in line with that. Not winning one more game this year, and then starting over next year. That's poor strategy. And ask yourself, who would be better by week 6 if you start them each from week 1? What if Jones is a little better now, but by midseason you think Trapilo will grow into a better option if he plays? I think that's how football teams look at this stuff, especially when it comes to rookies who can change their level of ability quickly from green to getting it in a few games. Weve all seen it before, playing the green rookie with upside over the known vet who might be better right now. Now if Trapilo is terrible, or Jones is amazing, then all bets are off. But if they are at all close, Trapilo gets the job.

Thats an interesting battle. We know what Braxton is and isnt, but you gotta test Trpilo under fire to see if he can handle it. I feel like this is Trapilos job to win or lose on his own merit, I dont imagine Jones coming out radically different than he's been and playing himself into a new contract. I mean just the fact that Poles has spent a 3rd rounder and then a 2nd rounder on the position the last two years should tell us what they think of Braxton's future. If Trapilo cant handle the upper tier of NFL Edge rushers, then maybe Jones gets the job, but if Trapilo shows anything at all, it's his job. Jones is almost certainly gone by next year, so even if Jones edges Trapilo out by a little, it'll still be Trapilo's job - and he will grow and gain chemistry with the other guys going into the future.

totally agree, and I think thats why the order here is purposefully not making any real comment on who is winning or losing the camp battles. I mean no way Monanagi is behind Homer. The league makes them put out a depth chart, and so they did, but i think they did it in a way that tells everyone "none of this is necessarily real"

all true, but I dont think that depth chart will stay that way long - I really think it's more a matter of having to provide one before the preseason game, and less about communicating anything about what the coaches plan to do opening day. Its SO tantilizing because we all want answers to those questions, and here is something that looks like a fact - but I dont think it really is. I need to see it myself anyway to have an actual opinion on the depth chart, and unfortunately I dont think the preseason is going to give us that. as for Trapilo and Burden, it's all good that we disagree, since it's just a gut instinct anyway at this point. I don't have any real info. Maybe if I saw the players I'd be all in on Jones? I have no idea. But I do know that Jones is in the last year of his deal, and Trapilo is in the first year of his rookie deal, and consistency on the OL is really important, so that tells me Trapilo has the edge if they're close. But I havent seen them play this year, so maybe Id have a strong opinion for one or the other if I had. Stinger said some beat writer said they purposely put the rookies behind for this initial depth chart. Cool. That may be another way of what you're saying too - that they have to keep growing to earn it. In any case, no matter who wins these battles, I dont think this depth chart means anything real? EDIT - and to your point about Burden, I assume you have JP Richardson as one of the ones ahead of Burden, but he is listed as "other" behind Burden. At WR, the 1st stringers are Moore and Odunze The 2nd stringers are Zaccheaus and Duverney The 3rd stringers are Burden and Boykin And then Richardson, Scott, Toure, Alexander, Jackson and Walker are "other" At RB, 1st string is Swift 2nd string is Johnson 3rd string is Homer and Wheeler, Monangai and Hankins are "other" So I dont think this depth chart is a real report on what the coaches are thinking right now. And that makes sense. The competition is still going on, so why praise and punish the competitors? Instead they come up with a generalized "rookies not named Loveland are put down on the list for now" rule. It's not a glimpse into how people are doing, it's just some BS, and we are SO hungry for info (myself included) that we look to it, but i dont think its got any real info.

That sounds right. There is no way Burden is so far back, and i think Trapilo is ahead of Jones, but thats just a gut feeling.

certainly a possibility. I also think the depth chart today isn't real. I heard somewhere (was it on CHGO?) that the coaches may not even have participated in it. Whatever the case, it will change over the next few weeks for sure.

I wouldnt want to try to predict when this offense will be rolling, but it seems that if they keep making progress, they have everything to get it rolling, and thatrs gonna be really fun. It seems very likely that given enough time, these guys are gonna be dangerous. Hopefully early, but either way, eventually.

I think Dennis Allen served a wake up call to the offense in front of the family crowd and embarassed and challenged them. This physical practice is probably the result of that - and it's good to see people getting dialed in. They will have to do a bunch more gut checks accompanied by a step up in intensity like this until they are ready to dominate other NFL teams. In the past I think we've tried to hang with NFL teams. It requires another level of intensity to dominate a pro team. When they're at the level that they see each week as an actual fight and nothing less than a beat down is OK, THEN this team will be a real contender. Another step forward. Keep stacking them.

exactly. But Miami will. He was pretty good on his college tape, moves well laterally, and is naturally wide. But some of these pass rushers have speed and hands and they are slippery as hell. Cant wait to see Trapilo try to handle that. And even if he gets beat a few times, if he learns, that will be great.

I agree with both of you. Id like to see it soon, but it might take a minute, but it's hard to imagine this group not figuring it out over time. The roster and the staff are much better than anything we've seen in quite a while, and in some ways, ever. I dont want to have patience, and I am going to see every mistake in the early games of course, but if it doesnt come fast, that doesnt mean it isnt coming. We will see what needs fixing, and if players need replacing - which isnt always the same thing at all. If Trapilo is rough early for example that's different than if DJ Moore is screwing up. One you expect to have a growth period, and the other is a polished pro who should be his normal great self. But i think this team should grow into something special, and i hope it happens fast, but if it takes a minute, we should be seeing growth at least. I won't lose hope right away if we start slow.

no. youre being dumb again. cap space absolutely matters. you need to make sure everyone on your team is playing up to what you pay them. wasted cap space is a problem. IF you have a top stud available, you can push cap space around to create space for them. and they also have to play up to their pay too. You cant keep pushing cap space around - it does matter - but for a single real stud you can find room. It binds you up then, but its Ok because you have that star player. This isnt controversial either - everyone who is paying attention knows this. I am surprised you dont.

lol youre still doing it. Agreed that the trade probably wont happen. Didnt agree on three of your points about why. Why do we have to pretend you didnt say them now? Just let it be, i dont need to keep talking about it, as long as you stop having some oversimplified last word like it didnt happen LOL