BearFan PHX

youre right, but what a crazy world where you lose Hicks but keep Leno - only the NFL could come up with a system that makes that make sense.

yeah we are all on the same page here - not attacking the messenger, just going over all the scenarios.

I guess the only reason youd trade Mack is for high picks, and the only way you could justify all that dead money would be if you drafted a rookie QB, and figured that you werent paying his vet salary which would be similar. It's kind of like how we could afford Mack in the first place, because we had a rookie QB in Trubisky. But in the real world, Mack is a bear for 2021.

but why would we destroy our cap to trade Mack? It would cost us $37 Million. The only way I see it is if we trade Mack for a first, and use at least one if not both of them on a QB in the first round the we think is the future. Then youre paying a rookie deal for the QB, so you can think of Macks $ as what a vet QB would have cost.

agree, and of course the contract was designed for exactly that purpose - when a player can demand it, having upfront money guarantees the player cant get cut so easily, and will get their salary portions too.

Actually Wentz will be a relative bargain since a decent chunk of his contract will stay on Philly's cap, assuming he is willing to play under his deal here, and doesnt demand to renegotiate some up front money from us. It'd be 6 to 10 million cheaper per year for us. Im not sure how some of the options are counted etc. But hed be more like 22 to 27 Mil not 33 But even as a "bargain" he'd still be getting real starter money, so you have to think he is your guy, and not draft a QB to start for the next few years. I hate the idea.

yeah but Mack's guaranteed money doesnt go with him in a trade, it hits us all at once, rather than being spread out over years as it is now. If we trade him, we must pay $37 Million on our cap this year NOT to have him. Next year it's 12 Million, and then you can dump him then or the next year if you want to. Now if we make him a poost June 1st "cut" then we can spread that 37 Million over the next two years, but I dont think we get to do that in a trade. We just cant afford to trade him this year unless we are willing to burn the 2021 season to the ground to get 2022 picks. The Cubs did that for a few years and won the World Series. Im not saying it cant be done or is a bad idea, but it does nothing for Nagy and Pace who are trying to keep their jobs, so I dont think Mack can be traded under any theory. If he has a big year next year with Goldman next to him THEN you could get something for him and afford to do it after next season. Or keep him.

agree, and if you have to trade up to get a worthy one in the 1st, thats fine with me as long as you dont trade future 1sts to do it. Hell, I guess Id be ok with them trading a future first if we thought the real deal was there, at least well still have the player after Pace goes. I just dont want to see future 1sts traded for someone like Wentz.

I dunno, but the cap ramifications make it impossible unless you get a corresponding impact player who is willing to continue to play under a contract where THEIR guaranteed money stays with Denver... If you get draft picks, then you're willing to field a terrible team in 2021 for future value, like the Cubs did for a few years. And that's a great idea honestly, but it makes it impossible for Nagy or Pace to keep their jobs. I mean, the conspiracy theory says that McCaskey knows this, and is willing to do it, and Nagy and Pace have to just eat it as punishment, but stick around anyway because they have to or something. But McCaskey's not that smart, and Nagy and Pace would quit. We are screwed for at least a couple years.

I think it's the ego of measure-ables, and assuming that you can coach him up. Honestly this whole time it's felt like Nagy really wants to be the QB and not the head coach, and he was trying to make Trubisky's reads for him three days ahead of time. Maybe he HAS to because Trubisky can't read, maybe with some OL protection and a decent QB Nagy's system works. But just like Trubisky, I havent seen it yet, so why assume it until you see it? But this being unwilling to let go of the play calling feels like Nagy doesnt understand being a head coach. Both of them (Nagy and Pace) think they can find an edge. And they miss out on just making regular decisions instead. I cant believe we brought them back for another year. Let's just hope they don't do anything to our future draft pics. If McCaskey lets them do that, then he should be put in stockades in the public square.

Drafting one and going with Foles until he is ready is the right move for the franchise. Sure we can argue about spending something (NOT draft picks) to get a different stopgap vet in here, but at the end of the day, drafting a rookie QB in the first round and getting him on the field by week 9 is whats best for this franchise. But it's not what's best for Nagy and Pace keeping their jobs. So the Bears ownership has set up a situation where the decisions makers have incentives to make decisions that arent best for the future of the Bears, even as they are about to be shown the door, but we will have to live with the fallout. This is a disaster, and if the Bears don't take a QB int he first round as a result, then Mikey boy should be fired too at a minimum.

DBEARS, I agree with a lot of what you wrote above, but if a guy cant even make it as the starter in North Carolina until his senior year, I think youve got to consider that to put intangibles into context. Mahomes was a winner in college, and Trubisky wasnt. If Im taking a QB #2 overall, hes got to have won something.

what the team needs is a rookie QB to develop from the first round, but the way this question is asked, and it absolutely highlights the problem, that wont save Nagy and Pace their jobs. So we will sign some mid tier free agent, and maybe fight to 9-7 or something, and then god help us if that's good enough to keep these fools. Someone has to think about the franchise, but we have no one to do that work. I want them to sell this team. I am in danger of just not caring anymore. I cant see that, Ive watched this soap opera for so long, but it is off the rails, and it doesnt look to end any time soon.

I'm just saying that for some reason, Pace took Watson off of his list of candidates, and maybe he was right to do it. That said, Mahomes had college production and Trubisky didnt. I understand the risk they took and why, but I think it smells of thinking you can coach up an athlete, rather than take a player. It's a mistake we've made over and over through the years. I know these guys fall in love with measurables, but they played football right in front of your eyes, watch the tape. If you dont see them dominating, then youre hoping on something that hasnt happened yet. Yes there are breakout players that dont develop until after college, like Brady, but then again they took him with a 6th round pick. Not the 2nd pick overall in the draft. We now know there was a reason Trubisky didnt start until his senior year - the guy cannot read a defense. It doesnt matter how fast, strong, nice he is. He didnt put it on film, and that is not anything anyone should ever accept for a top 10 pick. If you have Watson off of the list for personal reasons, and Trubisky hasnt put it on tape, you take Mahomes who did put it on tape. Does that mean youd know what he was going to become? No. No one did of course. But he was a better bet at the time for sure, if you value seeing it on tape.

it's possible that he feared it. But he should have taken Mahomes.

For sure, the Lions did very well in this trade. It's sort of a desperation move for LA, and if it doesnt pay off, theyll pay the price for it for a few years. here's hoping we don't trade our future away.

This is a really important point. You cannot trade away dead cap money, but you can trade two players, especially at the same position, where the dead money offsets. So Detroit keeps Staffords dead money, but gets Goff without his, and the Rams the same. So for example, to trade Mack or Quinn, youd need another team who was willing to trade a high value player that didnt come with big cap money. If you traded Mack for draft picks for example, youre not left with enough money to field a competitive team that year, kind of like what the Cubs did for a few years, buying free agents and trading them for picks, converting this years money to tomorrows picks, but if you got a player of Macks caliber and didnt have to pay them fully what they were worth, you could consider Macks dead money as the space ont he cap you would have allocated to the new player if youd signed their deal instead of trading for it. Problems are that players want new deals when they get traded, so they expect guaranteed money, which goes on their cap, and Nagy and Pace are not in build for the future mode, so the Cubs thing is moot too. So basically, the ony way we can trade anyone with a lot of dead cap money is for a player who also has the same. Meaning we could potentially have traded Mack for Goff, and Im sure some picks would have gone one way or the other too. And of course all that contingent on the idea that the player you trade for will play under their old deal that they didnt want to play for their previous team under. Unlikely as well.

How do you trade Mack with the cap hit tho?

I agree. But Watson is a great player, and he might prove me wrong. But I see it the same way you do.

exactly, and apparently Watson wants input into the coach and GM to be hired. SO with Nagy on the hot seat, maybe Watson comes here with the understanding that he has input into those decisions. If he believes in Nagy and it really was all Trubisky's fault in his mind, then that makes it all the easier. Now, would the McCaskey team be willing to allow something like that? Probably not. But let's not kid ourselves, Watson couldnt do a worse job of hiring those positions than we already have, and the candidates would improve if they knew theyd get to work with Watson. Who knows? Most likely, Watson is the first domino to fall, and shakes loose other players and we get one of those.

I pray that McCaskey will forbid any kind of trading of multiple future picks.

It's amazing how prescient the headlines here are. Nickelodeon?! And then it came true with a horrible slime graphic touchdown.

it's not about tearing down (or making a hero of) Artie Lange, he just destroyed Joe Buck, thats what it was about.

hahaha Christmas yes. DId you hear Michael Irvin's comment when Buck asked too late for a lifeline? LOL hilarious.

you cant Trade Mack without accelerating all of his bonus money into this year's cap (or the next two years after June 1st) either way, you wouldnt be able to afford to field a team. When you trade a player their dead cap money does not go with them, it goes all against your cap in the same year. If you keep him, it gets spread acorss the life of the contract.