BearFan PHX

Yes I understand some of those arguments for sure. Ill take em one at a time. 1) Leno was REALLY bad, and I think, if youd have average OLT play last year, we would have gone to the playoffs. I think a huge part of what is so bad about Trubisky was the Leno's guy was in his lap. Also we couldnt run to the left at all. And that was important after we coudlnt run to the right LOL What I sw wasnt just Leno getting beat, I saw him double teaming a guy with the guard while his guy cam unblocked WAY too often. Its the sort of mistake that pee wee players are able to fix. 2) I didn't think Leno was that great when he was a ProBowl alternate either, but obviously his 2018 was better than his 2019. I think if we had the 15th pick int he first round, we'd alkmost HAVE to pick an OLT if it wasnt a franchise QB still available. 3) this is the one I think is clouding all the writers' points of view. Who cares. Sunk money is sunk money. It's already gone. I dont think you should compound the problem by continuing to start a disaster at OLT. 4) This is a very good argument - probably the best one. I cant say that Prince Wanagho is worth the 43rd pick or could start. Im hoping Josh Jones falls, or someone even better. Maybe for a free agent like Jason Peters as a 2nd round guy grows, or a trade to Washington for Williams. Both are probably too expensive, but the window is closing for those players too this year. Im not sold that a safety or CB at 43 is gonna be a world beater either though. Thanks for the answer dawhizz!

hey Adam, Please tell me why you didnt just put Leno and Massie on the regular list? I dont mean it to be fighty - Im really asking. In olight of my comment just abovr yours Im clearly not seeing something. I know you and I have agreed that OLT is a need, so is it the assumption that a starter wont be available when our pick comes, but those other positions do have legit starters? I feel like Im missing something, and so I am legitimately asking for your thought process.

I'm stupid too. I know I am a broken record, but I can't imagine that they're doing nothing about OLT. To me, it was the biggest weakness on our team last year and a huge part of the offensive failures at QB and in the running game. I keep thinking they must have some sort of plan. But the writers are talking about WRs and TEs and CBs and I feel like I'm living in a bizarro world. I keep thinking that Pace has identified this position for his draft pick or a later Free Agent signing (or both) and is playing chess over our heads (wishful thinking) but I don't understand how the writers are all missing it too.

The finances and picks and all that work out, but I don't see Belichick being a Trubisky fan at this point. But imagine the nightmare if Belichick took Trubisky, and turned him into a 10 year all pro.

New England has a lot of picks. I wonder if they'll move up and grab a major QB prospect.

one finer point: The Pats have to pay the guaranteed portion of Gronks contract whether he stays retired, plays for the Pats, or gets traded to TB. It's the same to NE's cap. The difference is that Gronk said he'd stay retired unless they traded him, so the Pats can upgrade a 7th round pick to a 4th round or not. And of course they chose to do that rather than spite Gronk. But the idea that Gronk waited until a certain moment to put NE into a bind isnt right. Instead, he worked this out before the draft where NE was more likely to be willing to do it. And they did.

I still think Jason Peters is out there too. Each of these guys may want big money, and possibly even deserve it, but when the music stops playing, there are only a couple chairs left, and we might get lucky and snag one on a short deal while a draft picks learns and puts on muscle.

Yeah, I was thinking of Cleveland and Jackson. I would be against reaching for Wanogho at 43 for sure, and Niang and Wilson are probably ROTs anyway. I can definitely see the draft shaking out so that we take our OT at 50 rather than 43, but if our scouts have different ratings on guys that the common wisdom that could change everything - and then we pray they were right.

BPA of OT, S, CB, WR as long as one of the two picks is an OT.

oops youre right! Id alos look at some of the other LOTs too rather than trading out of that spot. I think that either 43 or 50 are going to an OLT, but I would be Ok if the right player fell at 43 to wait until 50 for it.

Of course I think you need to put an OLT on that list too.

It looks appetizing, and if you have good grades on players that are in that range, then you do the trade. I worry about the falloff, and would prefer something where we trade 43 (or 50) for two picks, one no lower than 100 (or 70!), and the other within 10 slots of the first pick, and only if you get there and have enough equally graded picks available that you think youre still gonna get one of your guys with the lower pick. So all in all, three picks looks juicy, but you might have to fall too far to get them? It would all depend on the board I guess.

I totally agree, but we've both been seeing this the same way since January.

OK. I thought you were smarter. It was my mistake. Carry on - I wont be offended or care much from here on out - if you want to play stupid, then I believe you.

could well be. also, if he can get just a little protection that might make a huge difference too

our two 2nd rounders together equal trading to LV to get our original first round pick back from them LOL Maybe we could trade into the middle of the first round for a QB or Becton falling.

no - you have to read what I said. I didnt predict them all to be cut. I predicted Robinson not to be cut. He was on the list because cutting him mathematically clears up cap space. Not because I think its a good idea or predict it. And cutting some Tight Ends inherently means we are more likely to keep others for example. Of the 4 I predicted, 3 have been cut. As to it being a contest or not, I use words like "probably" and "likely" and "I think"- youre the one who told me I was crazy and spoke in absolutes. And over the last two months, it's shown that I was right, and continues to move that way. So, time will tell, but the final scoreboard will not be opinion, we will all see what happens. I have patience, but for the next round, I will keep the authority of having won the last one.

In that thread you told me Burton and Floyd wouldnt be let go. I've won that much of the argument already. Also, if you read the thread, I didnt say every name on that list would be cut, I just weighed the options. Of the four I said were sure to be cut, only Leno remains.

I sure hope so. Honestly, I'd be happy to lose the bet if I could still get rid of Leno LOL The best chance is through the draft though, because I agree with Stringer and Ashkum here too that Spriggs is a longshot, but by no means a sure fire long term replacement. If we do manage to get good starting LOT play by some way, and decent production from the OL this could be a VERY good team. But if it looks like Leno did last year, it won't matter who you have out there, even Mahomes, Brady, Rogers whoever you like best, they cant do it with a pass rusher in their lap all game, and no holes for the running game.

totally. stinkingly awful.

yup, Im with you all the way on this.

On February 16th, I posted a long thread about where all the mathematically possible cap savings were, and how likely we were to cut those players. The names on my list were: FLOYD AMUKAMARAH GABRIEL LENO PATTERSON SHAHEEN BURTON BRAUNECKER COHEN ROBINSON with caveats about Robinson (that we would extend him) and possibly keep Patterson (that he is very valuable if Nagy uses him, but also has trade value), and possibly Cohen (I do think he is trade bait). Of course my anti love affair with Leno is well known, and as this offseason has gone on, and we havent really replaced him, but we did sign a possible today, and one of the 2nd rounders is likely to go to OT as well. Time will tell. Cutting him would still free up $3 Million, or more if you take a June 1st designation... At any rate, since then a lot of what I spoke about has happened, and there is still time for the rest. People disagreed at the time on a number of these players, but I think Pace showed that he is willing to make changes when he blew up our WR room a couple of years ago, so I am not as surprised. I have more faith in Pace than I do in Nagy right now. At least (as Adam says above) Pace is willing to change when he sees something isn't working. Nagy has this year to prove me wrong of course, and naturally I do hope he does.

wow big signing!

sadly, for my bet, I agree. Neither Cleveland nor Austin Jackson are ready for primetime in year 1 at OLT.

I dont really know enough about Eason to know whether I predict he will succeed or fail, and a speed WR would definitely be a need.