BearFan PHX

I think it's the ego of measure-ables, and assuming that you can coach him up. Honestly this whole time it's felt like Nagy really wants to be the QB and not the head coach, and he was trying to make Trubisky's reads for him three days ahead of time. Maybe he HAS to because Trubisky can't read, maybe with some OL protection and a decent QB Nagy's system works. But just like Trubisky, I havent seen it yet, so why assume it until you see it? But this being unwilling to let go of the play calling feels like Nagy doesnt understand being a head coach. Both of them (Nagy and Pace) think they can find an edge. And they miss out on just making regular decisions instead. I cant believe we brought them back for another year. Let's just hope they don't do anything to our future draft pics. If McCaskey lets them do that, then he should be put in stockades in the public square.

Drafting one and going with Foles until he is ready is the right move for the franchise. Sure we can argue about spending something (NOT draft picks) to get a different stopgap vet in here, but at the end of the day, drafting a rookie QB in the first round and getting him on the field by week 9 is whats best for this franchise. But it's not what's best for Nagy and Pace keeping their jobs. So the Bears ownership has set up a situation where the decisions makers have incentives to make decisions that arent best for the future of the Bears, even as they are about to be shown the door, but we will have to live with the fallout. This is a disaster, and if the Bears don't take a QB int he first round as a result, then Mikey boy should be fired too at a minimum.

DBEARS, I agree with a lot of what you wrote above, but if a guy cant even make it as the starter in North Carolina until his senior year, I think youve got to consider that to put intangibles into context. Mahomes was a winner in college, and Trubisky wasnt. If Im taking a QB #2 overall, hes got to have won something.

what the team needs is a rookie QB to develop from the first round, but the way this question is asked, and it absolutely highlights the problem, that wont save Nagy and Pace their jobs. So we will sign some mid tier free agent, and maybe fight to 9-7 or something, and then god help us if that's good enough to keep these fools. Someone has to think about the franchise, but we have no one to do that work. I want them to sell this team. I am in danger of just not caring anymore. I cant see that, Ive watched this soap opera for so long, but it is off the rails, and it doesnt look to end any time soon.

I'm just saying that for some reason, Pace took Watson off of his list of candidates, and maybe he was right to do it. That said, Mahomes had college production and Trubisky didnt. I understand the risk they took and why, but I think it smells of thinking you can coach up an athlete, rather than take a player. It's a mistake we've made over and over through the years. I know these guys fall in love with measurables, but they played football right in front of your eyes, watch the tape. If you dont see them dominating, then youre hoping on something that hasnt happened yet. Yes there are breakout players that dont develop until after college, like Brady, but then again they took him with a 6th round pick. Not the 2nd pick overall in the draft. We now know there was a reason Trubisky didnt start until his senior year - the guy cannot read a defense. It doesnt matter how fast, strong, nice he is. He didnt put it on film, and that is not anything anyone should ever accept for a top 10 pick. If you have Watson off of the list for personal reasons, and Trubisky hasnt put it on tape, you take Mahomes who did put it on tape. Does that mean youd know what he was going to become? No. No one did of course. But he was a better bet at the time for sure, if you value seeing it on tape.

it's possible that he feared it. But he should have taken Mahomes.

For sure, the Lions did very well in this trade. It's sort of a desperation move for LA, and if it doesnt pay off, theyll pay the price for it for a few years. here's hoping we don't trade our future away.

This is a really important point. You cannot trade away dead cap money, but you can trade two players, especially at the same position, where the dead money offsets. So Detroit keeps Staffords dead money, but gets Goff without his, and the Rams the same. So for example, to trade Mack or Quinn, youd need another team who was willing to trade a high value player that didnt come with big cap money. If you traded Mack for draft picks for example, youre not left with enough money to field a competitive team that year, kind of like what the Cubs did for a few years, buying free agents and trading them for picks, converting this years money to tomorrows picks, but if you got a player of Macks caliber and didnt have to pay them fully what they were worth, you could consider Macks dead money as the space ont he cap you would have allocated to the new player if youd signed their deal instead of trading for it. Problems are that players want new deals when they get traded, so they expect guaranteed money, which goes on their cap, and Nagy and Pace are not in build for the future mode, so the Cubs thing is moot too. So basically, the ony way we can trade anyone with a lot of dead cap money is for a player who also has the same. Meaning we could potentially have traded Mack for Goff, and Im sure some picks would have gone one way or the other too. And of course all that contingent on the idea that the player you trade for will play under their old deal that they didnt want to play for their previous team under. Unlikely as well.

How do you trade Mack with the cap hit tho?

I agree. But Watson is a great player, and he might prove me wrong. But I see it the same way you do.

exactly, and apparently Watson wants input into the coach and GM to be hired. SO with Nagy on the hot seat, maybe Watson comes here with the understanding that he has input into those decisions. If he believes in Nagy and it really was all Trubisky's fault in his mind, then that makes it all the easier. Now, would the McCaskey team be willing to allow something like that? Probably not. But let's not kid ourselves, Watson couldnt do a worse job of hiring those positions than we already have, and the candidates would improve if they knew theyd get to work with Watson. Who knows? Most likely, Watson is the first domino to fall, and shakes loose other players and we get one of those.

I pray that McCaskey will forbid any kind of trading of multiple future picks.

It's amazing how prescient the headlines here are. Nickelodeon?! And then it came true with a horrible slime graphic touchdown.

it's not about tearing down (or making a hero of) Artie Lange, he just destroyed Joe Buck, thats what it was about.

hahaha Christmas yes. DId you hear Michael Irvin's comment when Buck asked too late for a lifeline? LOL hilarious.

you cant Trade Mack without accelerating all of his bonus money into this year's cap (or the next two years after June 1st) either way, you wouldnt be able to afford to field a team. When you trade a player their dead cap money does not go with them, it goes all against your cap in the same year. If you keep him, it gets spread acorss the life of the contract.

Yeah Buck had that talk show on HBO(?) for one minute. Artie Lange destroyed it on the first episode so bad that they cancelled it. It's the most brutal takedown I've ever seen on TV, and Michal Irvin's comment is just priceless LOL

If you hate Joe Buck (and hey, who doesn't?) you'll enjoy watching ALL of this Two Parts: Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pj8y2Oi1lFk Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed1p8kuaDaw

yup = whoever is our starter on day one doesnt matter, just like Glennon. We need to draft a QB early and groom him - it is the only way to afford a competitive team under these cap rules. *IF* you have a Tom Brady, Aaron Rogers, Pat Mahomes etc then fine, you can pay him. Almost anyone else is not worth what a starting vet QB's salary does to your ability to field a team around him. And no one that is available is a long term sure thing winner anyway. When players like that do become available, it's only for a few years at the end of their contract like Brady, Manning or Montana. Whoever we get as a vet, or keep Foles is a placeholder, and we have to draft a young QB and hope we found a winner. THen common wisdom says you buy a pass rush, but our pass rush cap money is already allocated. We are going to need to grow for at least a year or two more - all the more reason to develop a young QB.

I agree. maybe he will surprise us, but at this point, I think we are seeing the end of something, not the beginning.

Id love to see some draft projections without trades too.

Singletary has been a head coach! Im not saying I want him for DC, but its not for lack of experience.

I agree. You cant buy a QB in this league and field a real team long term, you HAVE to draft one.

One good thing is that a lot of teams will have to release players for cap reasons, so there will be reasonably priced free agents for one year deals

thats not true tho. The salary portion moves to the new team, but if you cut the p;layer, you dont pay the salary either, but if you trade him, the guaranteed money accelerates into your cap - you cant get rid of guaranteed money with a trade. So you can't trade cap problems away with Mack or Quinn for example. "In terms of salary cap impact, a trade is essentially the same as releasing a player. If a player is traded at the deadline, all future prorated money will accelerate into the next season. For some teams, that takes certain players off the table if their signing bonuses and other prorated bonuses are large. In general, if a player's dead money charge in a given year will prevent him from being released the following year, it will also prevent him from being traded during the given season." https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/why-nfl-trades-are-rare/1fwllykgo2amj1dka7oj352ah6