BearFan PHX

on a brighter note, Amagadje is looking really good.

or punt with more than 12 min to go int he 1st in a tied game from your own 40. The defense stopped them - Thomas literally just gave them 3 points. It's malpractice. SO dumb. Hey Nagy/Eberflus/Thomas, I'll bet you on a coin flip. If I win I get your house, if you win I'll give you $20.

Glad to see we are still going for it when we shouldnt - Thomas just got eliminated from any head coach consideration in my mind. ANY pee wee football coach knows better. EVERYONE on this board knows better. What the hell.

damn i gotta say, all the fans in white, and the vikings in all white - its awesome and kind of intimidating.

Im for Vrabel. If we take Johnson, I wont complain or predict failure. THe worst I can say about Johns is he isnt proven, and I have concerns, but i dont think he is desitned to be bad, so I wouldnt complain, id just be concerned. To me Vrabel is the right choice, but it's not like hiring Johnson is a sure fail. It just takes more hope i guess.

dude between this and Vrabel, you're starting to sound like me hahahaha

narratives and media are often far off of reality. If you win games, they notice. But they arent truth tellers, they're narrative chasers. They'd rather talk about if someones father was a champion arm wrestler for example, or whether someone paints their nails than arm angles and mechanics. That's just what sells to the masses. But it doesnt take the place of actual analysis. If we start winning, theyll unfairly talk well about us too LOL

I understand the idea behind offensive continuity, but I also think it's important to get a head coach. If we could land Shanahan or someone like that, then I am all for it, and i see the advantage of an offensive mind. But Im not willing to give on the head coach aspect just to lean toward someone who is an OC. I think Vrabel has the head coach stuff for days, but he also understands offense. Just like no one would say that Belichick doesnt understand offense, even though he comes from the defensive side of the ball as a player. At least Vrabel WAS a player! I've heard him mic'd up coaching in training camp for the Titans and talking about run fits and angles and stuff - he clearly understands how the offense works. Also, as a LBer, he had to understand the running game and the passing game. LBers and Safeties have that where maybe defensive linemen and corners dont as much? Anyway, I think Vrabel is more of a well rounded guy than Eberflus or Fox were, and he understands offense enough to pick guys on the offensive staff that share a certain philosophy (whatever that is for him) and will keep continuity. So all thing being equal, I would prefer and offensive guy, but I dont think that is more important than getting a real head coach, and Vrabel really is one.

right. HC, and the lines are our needs.

adam, thanks again for the many awesome stats you compile here. I wouldnt see these anywhere else.

Or depending on how the evaluation goes, Kiran could be swing tackle, and a rookie could be the LT too. But if Amagadje shows good work in these last games, that would be a bright spot going into next year.

I wonder if having nothing to play for puts them in a more cautious mode

Jones has a concussion issue. Kiran Amagadje is available, as is Larry Borom. First and foremost, I worry about Caleb. I want him protected. No point in getting him injured now. But I'd be lying if I said I wasnt interested to see Amagadje out there showing what he's got. Hopefully both are possible at once, and Amagadje shows us something. But if it's one or the other, of course I'd lean toward protecting Caleb. And it's not like Borom is any sure thing. If things get ridiculous, I wouldn't be averse to seeing Bagent out there if things get hairy just to make sure Caleb is OK.

I think it comes down to basically Vrabel or Johnson. Johnson might have the juice to be a great head coach, but no one knows for sure. His Xs and Os are great, but like McVey, when you completely baffle the league (which RARELY happens, cough Nagy) it only lasts for like 12 weeks until a few teams demonstrate how to handle it. Then it comes down to something other than innovation. Does Johnson have that? I dunno. I cant say he doesnt, but it's a gamble. maybe in a few years we will all know he was great, but you don't know that right now. Vrabel is a proven commodity. he's a real leader, hes competitive, he's inspiring and intimidating, and he has super bowl rings. He is a real coach and you dont have to guess at that. On the flip side, it means your offense is coming from a coordinator. Not that Vrabel doesnt know offense, because he does - especially the running game, and particularly the blocking for the running game. but yes, we will have to have a good OC. And yes, if we win, we will have to go through OCs. But Vrabel klnows enough to know when to overrule the OC "dont get fancy, just run this down their throats" And he can probably smell nerdy BS that wont work form a mile away. I trust Vrabel to pick an OC more than poles or Warren! And more than i trust Johnson to pick a DC! For me, all that makes Vrabel the right answer. Johnson isnt a bad answer, hes just more risky. Both will insist on an offensive line. So it's just down to who Poles or Warren pick. And either are good picks, but i think one is the right pick, meaning Vrabel. Poles and Warren dont need to be geniuses, or reinvent the wheel. They just need to call Vrabel, and then sit back and take the credit. Oh, and get to work on finding the right OL.Vrabel will help them with that too. If Vrabel has a GM he wants to bring in, let him

yeah I just read it too - amazing. Says everything, and it's hard to come away after reading that thinking that Poles is someone you can depend on. Thanks for making me look for it! That archive.is/ trick is amazing for all kinds of things. any article on any topic thats behind a paywall - some research papers too.

yeah, and that is such a scathing indictment of our team, because it shouldn't be the case at ALL. They do have access to all kinds of information and interviews that we will never have, and they still cant get it right. I hate the idea that the mccaskeys have to sell the team before we can get better, and maybe we can find the right GM and coach to work around them, but they sure have been an obstacle, and maybe they really do need to be gone before we can be a real franchise. It's WAY too late now, but why the hell did I have to become a Bears fan when i was a kid? LOL

right, and also that someone who is "pretty good" is a guy you keep in business, but a guy you fire in the NFL

here ya go. you can pretty much read ANY webpage that has a paywall if you just type "archive.is/" right before the www part here's a condensed link https://archive.is/xbZWJ

yeah well, 15 years in the making... you were definitely right.

Well of course I agree that Fields didn't get support from the team. We haven't had an OL in decades, and I know that's something you couldn't agree with more LOL I don't personally think Fields can see the field in the passing game, but there is no denying he is an incredible athlete with a hell of an arm - his long ball is much better than Caleb's too, and he is a Hester-like runner, although that's a good way to get injured too. But still he is an electric athlete. But I think without being able to read the field, Justin's ceiling is much lower that what Caleb is capable of.

I keep telling you the same thing. just because people that ended up good (like Belichick) failed initially does NOT mean that the majority of people that fail initially will eventually succeed. Most people that fail at that level will never succeed. I am less concerned with being "fair" to Poles than I am to making sure Caleb has what he needs. Also, I have never said a rebuild takes 2 years - what I have said is that if after two years you know someone is not getting it done, you don't have to wait the full 5 to see the result. Flus showed us who he was last year. We should have fired him in the offseason, instead Poles kept him. If Poles wanted to fire him the, and was not allowed to fire him, then whoever said he wasnt allowed to fire him should be removed from football decisions. It's not hard - if you cant see that one of the 6 worst coaches of ALL TIME is fireable after last year, then you have no business making football decisions. And this isn't hindsight. I said this past offseason when Flus returned that if we didn't look good right out of the gate, it would and should cost Poles his job. I said it was a mistake at the time. So far I've been on record saying: Charles Leno sucks Justin Field sucks Waldron sucks Flus sucks Chris Morgan sucks in each case you said it was too early to tell and we should give them more time. Well Caleb doesnt have more time. If we dont get this together fast, Caleb will hold out and demand a trade. This is not the time time for "aw gee, let's give poles more time" it's time for bold action. Bring in some winners and let's go. I dont even really want to give ben Johnson the benefit of the doubt. He might well be an excellent head coach, but we dont KNOW. Get Vrabel, let him suggest his choice of GM and OC, and lets go win.

It's not a moot point. Anything he does is part of his body of work, and part of how you grade his performance. And Poles did not fire Flus during this past offseason where any of us could already see his consistently poor game managament, and how he cost us wins we had in our pocket multiple times. And when you see someone does something poorly and doesn't change, then it is possible to predict that they will do it again int he future, and boy did he this year. In keeping Flus, he basically doubled down on the original decision, and becomes more responsible for it. If you're not so blinded by affection for the team, it is pretty easy to see when people are not doing their jobs, and you don't have to wait so long to move on from them. Talking about Flus, Velus Jones, Nate Davis - none of them should have been in our plans for this year. That's 20% of Caleb's rookie contract window wasted. If as a player* or coach, you're not showing that you're top 5 in the league, the organizationshould have you on the list to be replaced. Obviously you cant turn over an entire roster every year, so sometimes it takes a couple years, like with Braxton, but the GM should already know you arent the long term answer. * rookies and young players making consistent progress excepted.

right. hes not great, hes not terrible. that is reason to be fired in the NFL where 31 teams lose and only one wins the superbowl. If your goal is to be 15th, then keep him, keep Thomas Brown, hire from within and keep on rooting for them to get better. But if you want to chase greatness, you gotta let people go when they show you they arent great. Also, we knew this about Nate Davis too - we read articles about his work ethic back when he was acquired. Everyone knew.

no. if it was clickbait, it would be in the headline in order to bait someone to click. it would be the lead story. it would be the point of the podcast or article. This, on the other hand, was buried in the podcast, quickly addressed with some hesitation and then moved on from. It isnt intended to gain attention, or garner clicks because it was buried, not featured. I believe it was true - or that at least the source they had told them it was true. You can think whatever you want to.

RIGHT. so if the claim isnt in the headline, but instead buried deep inside a conversation, and made as an aside during another topic, then it isnt clickbait. The claim that Poles wanted to keep Eberflus during the offseason while Warren argued against it was made in the middle of a multiple hour podcast, not included in any title, and was made as an aside after asking his partner "should I say this? we really arent supposed to talk about it" and then quickly moved on from. Since youd already have to be listening, and nothing about the comment or topic is advertised or promoted, it cannot be clickbait.