BearFan PHX

agree!

in addition to his physical issues, being unable to sustain blocks etc, he was blocking the wrong guy all too often. That's not going to get better.

Hi Pix, I agree, it's good to see you post here. What if it was put a different way. Last season went very poorly and to change nothing would be like saying everything was fine, and so they felt they had to make some changes to shake things up. They knew they werent going to fire themselves (Pace and Nagy) so they went to the people who ran the positions that failed. OC and OL. That is almost the same as scapegoating, but from a different point of view, not purely political, but still systematic.

I dont think Howard has enough change of direction. I totally think this is a smart comment "I think someone hypothesized that the reason Hiestand lost his job was because he wanted to do more power blocking and Nagy did not. (My guess is Nagy needed a scape goat and Hiestand was one of a few options). " -- I think probably a combination of both and the horrible play of the OL in general. But it was a smart point you made.

I think we are going to cut Leno. If keeping him as the swing tackle backup saves a few buck to go towards the replacement OT so be it, but in no way do I think he will be a starter for us next year. He is easily the weakest link on the team, and personally bears a significant percentage of the blame for our season this year. It is rare that a single player could be responsible for so much of the failure. Especially a non QB. I urge anyone who disagrees to go to you tube and watch some of the weekly recaps on the BearsBarroom channel. The videos are called "the tape never lies" - if you watch those, you cant come away with anything but the idea that this guy is the worst lineman in all of football.

I totally agree that Leno doesnt have dominant physical tools. And Id be open to the idea that a technique guru could help him with those techniques. But the guy doesnt even choose the right player to block most of the time. If you watch the youtube channel "Bears Barroom" and the "the tape never lies" videos, you can see just how incredibly awful he is. You can even mute the commenter, you can see it with your own eyes, over and over every week. And these are things PeeWee league players understand. For me, Leno should not be on the team. So When I hear Long is praising him, and then the admission that he isnt that good, it sounds like Kyle is trying to be good to his guys, and I respect that, but I wouldnt think that way if I was Pace. Longs a good and loyal guy, I like him, but I dont expect unbiased info from him about his buddies. And more to the point, Leno is awful.

I dunno. I find it hard to believe that Hiestand, who was widely regarded as the best OL coach in college or pro football didnt understand that every defender needs a blocker, and that you cant double team the tackle and leave the end (or OLB) unblocked. I can imagine that Hiestand wanted a more power running game and Nagy likes the traps and pulling lineman. I can imagine that as the season went on an it became painfully obvious to everyone, that Hiestand might have spoken back to Nagy or challenged him. I can even imagine that Hiestand has certain blocking techniques (talking hands and back position, not Xs and Os) that werent popular. But every team down to pee wee league knows that if two OL are one one defender and the other is unblocked on the playside, that's just a mistake. And it's a mistake Leno made OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Leno is AWFUL. Anyone who says he isnt loses credibility in my eyes. (Im talking about Kyle Long or Nagy etc, not you!)

The idea that if you have money tied up in a bad player that you have to keep playing them is false. Pace cut Parkey, even though everyone predicted he wouldnt for the same reason. The money is gone, no need to ALSO play a bad player. Also, Leno can be cut and designated as a June 1st cut to spread the pain a bit over two years. We can afford it, and we should get rid of him.

OK if Leno is a coach on the field, why does he (attempt to) block the wrong guy so often?

I dunno. I think maybe Long is just being loyal to his guys. If you tell me Leno is an excellent OT, then I know youre wrong. I dont care who you are or how much experience you have. If you tell me last years OL was good, then you are wrong.

that will be their plan. But of course you gotta make a lot of first downs to make that work, and every 3rd down is a chance to end up punting it to Mahomes, who might well score a touchdown quickly. And if you get down 14, eating all that clock starts to work against you. From right here, this looks like a classic heavyweight prize fight. They both have their strategies, they both have their edges. Maybe it will come down to what kind of winner Mahomes is. We saw that in the playoffs...

Oh Im not saying that they actually would choose a team because they could dance. Im saying that Nagy is not the disciplinarian that Belichick is. Otherwise, theyd both still want to be in NE. But they want somewhere there is a coach weak enough to push around. That's what Im saying.

I totally agree that doubling down on bad choices is the way to get fired. I see a lot of that in Nagy. I worry that I see it in Pace too, but he is so secretive about this stuff (which is a good thing) that I dont really know what he is thinking.

Yes. I admit this is a stupid thread. Still, the idea is interesting, and worth a January conversation, even if just for fun. Gronk is apparently telling Brady to go to another team. That implies that he might be willing to come out of retirement to join Brady somewhere without Belichick. They'd want a team with a good defense. They'd want a team that needs a QB and a TE. A team that knew that they were getting older and would draft a QB to sit behind Brady for a couple of years. They'd want a team with a "fun" head coach. No winning at any cost like Belichick. Someone who liked to have dance parties when they win regular season games. Someone who was weak enough to dominate and do what they want. They'd want a team in a big media market. CHicago would certainly bring big ad opportunities for Brady and Gronk. They'd want a team that could contend for a Super Bowl, who didnt already have a QB. That's the real kicker. The best teams already have QBs. Now I said this was stupid. I'm not sure Id want them here. Brady is getting older, and it'd feel so mercenary. But maybe Brady would have the balls to reign in the offense in a way Nagy hasn't. Or maybe he'd get a quick PHD in Nagy-world and show us all how the video game offense really can work if you have a master. Anyway, a lot of the pieces fit, so it's worth a discussion since nothing else much is going on at this time of year. What do you think? Would you take Brady and Gronk on a 3 year deal?

agree

I think that after the first couple of rounds, trading down is always a good idea generically. The exception being that someone you have valued highly has fallen and you could snatch them up. In other words, if they arent a 1st or 2nd round talent in your own grading system, trading down is almost always a good idea. Of course that means you need a trading partner who wants to trade up and they know what we've just said is true too, so it's not always so easy to find a good trade down opportunity in later rounds. But yeah, I'd rather have more 3rds and 4ths versus being earlier in those rounds. A second player in the same neighborhood increases your chances of finding a player.

I like this one!

lots of A+ BPA picks, but no early OT?

I dunno if KPL has the "bend" and length you need to play OLB in a 3-4. The Lance Briggs 4-3 OLB type is one of the middle linebackers in a 3-4. The OLB are more akin to a DE in a 4-3, they can be a little lighter, but they have to be tall and have bend.

people hate seeing it, but until we lose a game that we had a big lead in and went into prevent too early, it's hard to complain and know that youre right. I dont know if you can use those scenarios as evidence of how aggressive a coach he is. The book on him is that he would blitz more than Fangio. Obviously, injuries decimated the defense and we were still pretty good. I think Pagano is fine, and the offense needs to score points.

just like the WRs a couple years ago, dont be shocked if Pace brings in more new OL than just a couple.

If Robinson is back (and he should be) it will be Robinson, Miller, Wims, Ridely and Cohen in the slot. There is room for another WR there, and every team can use a burner, but with our issues on OL and at TE, I dont see us investing a lot of capital on WR this year. Even if they choose to replace Robinson's big contract, then I don't see them looking to a rookie to fill that role, so it would be a downgrade via Free Agency at WR to gain cap room to sign OL and TE. And I dont see the letting Robinson go. So yes, Gabriel is gone, but he wasn't a huge part of the offense anyway and it wont be a top pick that replaces him in my opinion.

me either apparently

AHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU FOUND IT!

no I mean it. In the post, I reached new levels of intellectualism never before seen on the planet. And it got erased, and I forgot it all.