BearFan PHX

I agree with all of this - I've been thinking the same. Except I don't want Pace back after next year, no matter what the team does. I mean yes i suppose, if he fills the team with undrafted rookies that all become pro bowlers and they go 16-0 and win the Super Bowl by 1,000 points, then would you bring him back? I GUESS so. But in the real world, if they make Pace live with his own mess, with no future value allowed to be spent now, fine. You're right they wont get the best candidates anyway. Kind of like how we had to have FOx before we could get a young up and coming genius. Except we got Nagy instead. But all of that is predicated on the idea that a great hire isn't interested. If you speak to someone and they're willing to brave through next year so that it will be their 2021 draft picks they begin the 2022 season with, then don't hesitate to lose Pace.

yeah we do have some younger players we can build on. Roquan Smith, Jaylon Johnson, Tashaun Gipson, David Montgomery, Darnell Mooney, Cole Kmet, some of the interior OL, and some rotational players on the D line too. But we have no QB, no pass protection and we no pass rush - and THAT is football. And we haven no money. Fire Pace?

Yeah that really is kind of shocking. I mean, even Bill Belichick passed on Tom Brady 5 times, but once he had him in camp, he was smart enough to see he was worth keeping. I don't really know what any of these people are doing to help our team that we couldn't have done better. And that is shocking, because i think that in general GMs have a much better perspective than we can every have. I think we are foolish to think we could actually do a good job as GM of a pro team. But i dont see this crew doing any better. Watch them give them ANOTHER year. "Blah blah, covid wasnt their fault blah blah coach and Gm of the year blah blah playoffs two out of three years" YEAH but did you look at the team? Did you watch them play? they arent ascending. They arent progressing. Oh it's all so stupid.

you CAN "tag and trade" but you need the cap room to tag, and to hold that space until you trade. And if teams know you NEED to trade him, the price goes down. And you might be stuck with him, which means all that money tied up. https://withthefirstpick.com/2020/03/21/nfl-5-franchise-tagged-players-most-likely-to-get-traded/

I think Nagy is trying to control Mitch fromt he sideline like a video game, and you need to have an actual QB and let them play. Sure you create the plays, but they don't play themselves, someone needs to make the reads, and adjust. Most plays are "broken" plays in the sense that some kind of adaptation occurs after the snap. Nagy didnt give Mitch the space to do that. And in no way am I saying i think Mitch would have succeeded with it either.

agree with all of that. Miller and Wims drop a lot of balls too - and it's the same issue - concentration, discipline. I feel like we've been drafting based on upside, and not looking enough at production, which proves the intangible parts a 40 time doesn't reveal. Also, MT had played only 13 games in college - drafted on potential. Nagy hadn't called plays in KC until the last few games, and screwed them our of the playoffs by - wait for it - getting away from the run. Hired on potential. Fire Pace. And let the new guy do what he thinks is right - and that will be to fire everyone else, and to choose people who have proven something somewhere.

sure but after it happened the first time a GOOD coaching staff would have been talking about it in the week leading up to the game so the player is prepared to walk away. No matter WHAT he said.

2 or 3 for me Foles and a High Draft pick. Not that I LIKE Foles, but he has so much dead money, and whoever it is is a placeholder until the High Draft pick is ready by week 4 to 8.

the next GM is going to have major problems to fix, and i think we may need to give him a year to just burn with no expectations. And youre right, WIms and Miller are idiots - also, the same player goads them each into a punch? What does that say about our coaching. I wanna wake up tomorrow to hear that Pace is fired.

It's been said and re-said over the past few weeks, but there is nothing above average about any of this, therefore, there is nothing to lose in blowing it all up. It's not like you want to save any part of it. If this was draw poker, and you could take 5 new cards, you would.

With Smith out, and still missing Goldman, we are open up the middle. I expect the Saints to run Kamara down our throats, and when we adjust, Brees will pick a 6 man coverage and over eager linebackers apart with play action. Those zones get a lot bigger when people are staying up front to watch for the run.

Sure, but Nagy is on the record as saying he wants a lot of deep shots, so this is a chicken egg kind of thing. Is it a matter of Mitch not being given the opportunity to throw deep and that's why the sample size is too small through no fault of his own? or is it that the coaching staff knows he cant throw deep so they dont call those plays much anymore? We know the defenses are cheating up so its not like the opponent's game plan is taking that away. Or maybe this is just Charles Leno killing everything because we know Mitch wont have time for a 7 step drop to get to those deep routes anyway. Either way, I'm coming around to seeing that that's Pace's fault. Trubisky AND Leno. And Nagy.

I said to fire Nagy around week 12 last year, give Mitch a different look and if he couldnt make it, then move on and draft a QB this year. I said if we didnt, wed lose not only this one year, but the defense would regress. I honestly think nothing positive that ends in a Super Bowl can begin until Nagy is gone.

I dunno if this is just trying to gain leverage, or he means it, but apparently Watson is following Chicago weather forecasters on twitter LOL If Nagy and Pace get one more year, can you imagine them trading the future to get this guy to prove that Nagy was good and it was Trubisky that was the problem? And do you think that would work? To me it sounds like it would just cost us the chance to get more OL, and other players, and end in the same result. https://heavy.com/sports/chicago-bears/fans-react-deshaun-watson-twitter-likes/?fbclid=IwAR3-0IRwA96mUuRlkMRirbuV9cX8jzhAXzuXgGpO2rfHfXrGTPX1Oez5Lyg

Hey Guys, So, this weekend we will all probably watch more than one game. When you do, pay attention to the rhythm of the other teams you watch. Notice how they gain momentum. They may not convert third downs and have to punt, but they look like they know what they're doing. In short, they look professional. We watch the Bears. Probably 85% of the games I watch are Bears games. I see the opponent for sure, but I see them in the context of this crazy rhythmless game. When I watch any other teams go at it, they may be bad teams, they may make bad decisions or plays, but you can feel the structure around them. The Bears never have that. And this is what coaching LOOKS like. Notice it when you watch other games. It's easy to see. They all look like football is supposed to - like a Madden game. Even when they are losing or winning, the pace feels like football. Conversely, about 10 years ago I was flipping through channels in the middle of the day. I didn't have NFL network, and I don't think it was football season, so when I saw a replay of a high school game was on ESPN, I thought Id watch for a few minutes. I watched a team in green on offense break the huddle and get into their stances in the O line, and before the ball was even snapped I knew I was looking at the best coached team I'd ever seen. They moved together like a Roman phalanx. Regardless of their abilities as players, together they were a psychological steamroller that would roll you over. You couldn't even really see any of them as individuals. They were a machine - a team. Later I found out I was watching DeLaSalle High School football, and at that time the team hadn't lost a game in like 10 years or something. And of course players only stay in high school 4 years, and probably only start for two or less. This is pure coaching. It lept off the screen immediately. When you see it lacking on the Bears, you'll know it's time to fire Nagy. You'll know just how bad we've been for so long. Even when we rode Grossman to an unlikely superbowl - it was more like winning a raffle than beating opponents with a plan. You can see a team just by the way they line up, and work together. If it looks like a machine, like a dance, it's in rhythm, and the players have bought into it. It it looks like a bunch of guys trying to keep everything from blowing up as individuals, that's not a team.

I just looked, and first off I didnt realize that we had Champ Kelly on our staff. I remember him as a damned good DB back in the day. And remember, he was a Bronco as a player, and probably has some personal connection to John Elway too. He was hired by the Bears and worked as director of pro scouting - so he was the one looking at free agents, but not draftable rookies. This is his second season as director of player personnel, which means he was a big part of the Quinn analysis. He's probably a big part of signing ARob, and Graham too. So who knows. One thing is for sure - there is more to GM than picking players, but that's a big part of it. He was a hell of a player, so who am I to say what he can and can't do. I just guess that more times than not, an assistant GM is a better choice than a pure scouting guy. But Pace was an asst. etc etc

so when we hired Pace, we lost a few 3rd rounders (he traded them) but if we dont hire this guy we get them back! dont hire him LOL

what role did he have in picking Trubisky over Watson or Mahomes?

well put. Playing Ok against a few horrible defenses does not an NFL starter make.

I dont think Fitzgerald is up to the rigors of the pro game. I dont think he is sophisticated enough in an Xs and Os kind of way, and i can see how they might like the feel good story etc - but if you actually succumb to that and start Rudy regularly as your running back, the Cinderella story just turns into you've got a guy that isn't really very good at running back LOL

100% and Ive been loving the game thread titles BTW - perfect

yup Ive understood that the whole time, that you dont like Leno, just predicted theyd keep him. I think the basis of our disagreement, and my need to look deeper, is that i cant believe they are willing to suck. Or that they dont see how bad he is. Or that their goals are not necessarily to win games but to attract viewers, and so new names at WR might be sexier than an OL - or any number of similar foolish modes of thought. And yet this ownership - from greed, ego or ignorance (or all three) doesnt make the obvious moves necessary, And I can put Leno specifically squarely on Pace. Also PFF is the worst. Like you say, by the eye test. Trubisky is really bad too. Int he first possession of the game, the offense was ready. They were blocking well, running hard, receivers getting open, and play calls in rhythm, winning the rock paper scissors game too. And yet on every play, Trubisky almost ruined it. He runs into Montgomery, he overthrows receivers. Wide open receivers make impressive and difficult catches rather than the ball being on the numbers. And later in the game, throwing into double and triple coverage week in and week out. Maybe youre right, maybe Nagy would be good with a different QB, or with an OL or whatever. But none of them have done it for whatever reason and theyve not done it together as a team. I don't see any reason not to try with all new faces - nothing of proven above average value in any of them. And you're saying "Dude theyre gonna keep the band together one more year" and I cant say that youre wrong. But they sure are if they do.

I'd just like to echo the idea that Harbaugh is NOT what we need. And neither is Pat Fitzgerald. That is all.

Last year, you and i quarreled about Leno. You said theyd keep him, and i said theyd dump him. My argument was that he was terrible and anyone could see it, yours was that you agreed with me, but Bears management wouldnt do it. As you well know you won that bet. Here we are again. Keepiung Pace and Nagy is a TERRIBLE idea - on the merits it should be easy to predict that the bears will fire them. They SHOULD. But your argument here is similar to last year - youre not saying Pace and Nagy deserve to be retained, or should be, youre saying the Bears will despite all that. I have to listen this time I guess. I can only see what the smart or right thing to do is (in my opinion of course) you are making your point based on the ineptitude of the Bears to get any of this right. I think i need to widen my scope Sell the team you cretins.

that IS interesting. and if it's true it's a huge indictment of what Nagy and Lazor couldnt get out of Trubisky. Of course, i still think it's mostly because we have played bad teams, but if the Bears go out and kick Green Bay's ass on offense that will be a different story. I will say this, for all the blame that is to go around, I havent seen any direct reason to blame DeFilipo individually for sure.