BearFan PHX

I dunno if this is just trying to gain leverage, or he means it, but apparently Watson is following Chicago weather forecasters on twitter LOL If Nagy and Pace get one more year, can you imagine them trading the future to get this guy to prove that Nagy was good and it was Trubisky that was the problem? And do you think that would work? To me it sounds like it would just cost us the chance to get more OL, and other players, and end in the same result. https://heavy.com/sports/chicago-bears/fans-react-deshaun-watson-twitter-likes/?fbclid=IwAR3-0IRwA96mUuRlkMRirbuV9cX8jzhAXzuXgGpO2rfHfXrGTPX1Oez5Lyg

Hey Guys, So, this weekend we will all probably watch more than one game. When you do, pay attention to the rhythm of the other teams you watch. Notice how they gain momentum. They may not convert third downs and have to punt, but they look like they know what they're doing. In short, they look professional. We watch the Bears. Probably 85% of the games I watch are Bears games. I see the opponent for sure, but I see them in the context of this crazy rhythmless game. When I watch any other teams go at it, they may be bad teams, they may make bad decisions or plays, but you can feel the structure around them. The Bears never have that. And this is what coaching LOOKS like. Notice it when you watch other games. It's easy to see. They all look like football is supposed to - like a Madden game. Even when they are losing or winning, the pace feels like football. Conversely, about 10 years ago I was flipping through channels in the middle of the day. I didn't have NFL network, and I don't think it was football season, so when I saw a replay of a high school game was on ESPN, I thought Id watch for a few minutes. I watched a team in green on offense break the huddle and get into their stances in the O line, and before the ball was even snapped I knew I was looking at the best coached team I'd ever seen. They moved together like a Roman phalanx. Regardless of their abilities as players, together they were a psychological steamroller that would roll you over. You couldn't even really see any of them as individuals. They were a machine - a team. Later I found out I was watching DeLaSalle High School football, and at that time the team hadn't lost a game in like 10 years or something. And of course players only stay in high school 4 years, and probably only start for two or less. This is pure coaching. It lept off the screen immediately. When you see it lacking on the Bears, you'll know it's time to fire Nagy. You'll know just how bad we've been for so long. Even when we rode Grossman to an unlikely superbowl - it was more like winning a raffle than beating opponents with a plan. You can see a team just by the way they line up, and work together. If it looks like a machine, like a dance, it's in rhythm, and the players have bought into it. It it looks like a bunch of guys trying to keep everything from blowing up as individuals, that's not a team.

I just looked, and first off I didnt realize that we had Champ Kelly on our staff. I remember him as a damned good DB back in the day. And remember, he was a Bronco as a player, and probably has some personal connection to John Elway too. He was hired by the Bears and worked as director of pro scouting - so he was the one looking at free agents, but not draftable rookies. This is his second season as director of player personnel, which means he was a big part of the Quinn analysis. He's probably a big part of signing ARob, and Graham too. So who knows. One thing is for sure - there is more to GM than picking players, but that's a big part of it. He was a hell of a player, so who am I to say what he can and can't do. I just guess that more times than not, an assistant GM is a better choice than a pure scouting guy. But Pace was an asst. etc etc

so when we hired Pace, we lost a few 3rd rounders (he traded them) but if we dont hire this guy we get them back! dont hire him LOL

what role did he have in picking Trubisky over Watson or Mahomes?

well put. Playing Ok against a few horrible defenses does not an NFL starter make.

I dont think Fitzgerald is up to the rigors of the pro game. I dont think he is sophisticated enough in an Xs and Os kind of way, and i can see how they might like the feel good story etc - but if you actually succumb to that and start Rudy regularly as your running back, the Cinderella story just turns into you've got a guy that isn't really very good at running back LOL

100% and Ive been loving the game thread titles BTW - perfect

yup Ive understood that the whole time, that you dont like Leno, just predicted theyd keep him. I think the basis of our disagreement, and my need to look deeper, is that i cant believe they are willing to suck. Or that they dont see how bad he is. Or that their goals are not necessarily to win games but to attract viewers, and so new names at WR might be sexier than an OL - or any number of similar foolish modes of thought. And yet this ownership - from greed, ego or ignorance (or all three) doesnt make the obvious moves necessary, And I can put Leno specifically squarely on Pace. Also PFF is the worst. Like you say, by the eye test. Trubisky is really bad too. Int he first possession of the game, the offense was ready. They were blocking well, running hard, receivers getting open, and play calls in rhythm, winning the rock paper scissors game too. And yet on every play, Trubisky almost ruined it. He runs into Montgomery, he overthrows receivers. Wide open receivers make impressive and difficult catches rather than the ball being on the numbers. And later in the game, throwing into double and triple coverage week in and week out. Maybe youre right, maybe Nagy would be good with a different QB, or with an OL or whatever. But none of them have done it for whatever reason and theyve not done it together as a team. I don't see any reason not to try with all new faces - nothing of proven above average value in any of them. And you're saying "Dude theyre gonna keep the band together one more year" and I cant say that youre wrong. But they sure are if they do.

I'd just like to echo the idea that Harbaugh is NOT what we need. And neither is Pat Fitzgerald. That is all.

Last year, you and i quarreled about Leno. You said theyd keep him, and i said theyd dump him. My argument was that he was terrible and anyone could see it, yours was that you agreed with me, but Bears management wouldnt do it. As you well know you won that bet. Here we are again. Keepiung Pace and Nagy is a TERRIBLE idea - on the merits it should be easy to predict that the bears will fire them. They SHOULD. But your argument here is similar to last year - youre not saying Pace and Nagy deserve to be retained, or should be, youre saying the Bears will despite all that. I have to listen this time I guess. I can only see what the smart or right thing to do is (in my opinion of course) you are making your point based on the ineptitude of the Bears to get any of this right. I think i need to widen my scope Sell the team you cretins.

that IS interesting. and if it's true it's a huge indictment of what Nagy and Lazor couldnt get out of Trubisky. Of course, i still think it's mostly because we have played bad teams, but if the Bears go out and kick Green Bay's ass on offense that will be a different story. I will say this, for all the blame that is to go around, I havent seen any direct reason to blame DeFilipo individually for sure.

I wont quarrel if you want to get rid of Pace - it's ALL good. But let's not be so enamored of mediocrity just because it's such an improvement over really bad. Weve gotten used to such crap that we're thinking we have more than we do in Nagy and Trubisky because we beat the Lions? LOL

I should add, everything i wrote is all about the offseason and next year - they should do whatever they can to win right now, and i will be rooting for Mitch and Nagy and all of them of course.

I hear you, and I agree, but the implication is that they can't do as much because they have to cater to Trubisky. KC doesn't play Mahomes this way for example. I just don't thionk Trubisky is any better or more valuable than a bunch of other 2nd tier free agents that will be available. If (when) we have a new coaching staff, they will want a QB with a skill set that matches what they want to do. So, I don't give Trubisky any extra points for anything, in terms of his value as a player. As a person I like him. He seems very young, but he seems authentic and like a good person. I guess even if he does bomb out of the NFL he has like $20 Million in his pocket, so it's not SO bad. And if for some reason whoever the GM is decides that Trubisky is the best option out there for the $ to be ain interim guy while a draft picks learns until week 8, then fine. I like the guy. But he is not the future in any way shape or form, and we need to looking to do something major about that. And Nagy too, in my opinion. If you love Pace, we can keep him, but he's probably gone too, and it's probably for the best. And the worst case scenario is that this all happens after next year. ANd even worse if Pace drafts a QB #1, and he doesnt work out. Thats why if youre gonna change, and we really should, now's the time.

It's hard to say. Trubisky has only performed well for a couple of weeks against inferior teams. We talk about rolling him out so he only has to read half the field etc. If that's so, then he's not the right guy to model the system to the rookie. We won't even be running the system. And speaking of such things, if Nagy is gone, why keep OR draft another QB for that system? I think that decision needs to belong to the new GM / Coach. If Trubisky is the best option of all the low priced interim QBs available in the opinion of the new GM, then so be it, but I doubt it.

exactly. if Trubisky is the best placeholder, then so be it - but he is NOT the future.

Right, for all the players that teams will have to cut, there will be a lot of players available for cheaper deals too. Probably lots of short term deals, which is good for an organization that needs to field a team, but doesnt want to be tied long term to those contracts - from the point of view of the new GM coming in 2021 or 2022

I still do.

I think Nagy has been trying to play QB from the sidelines. He sees Trubisky as a kind of robot to execute his plays that should just work. ANd of course, QB is a lot more than that. And given the number of total mental lapses that Trubisky continues to make - throwing into triple coverage, making the wrong read etc, I think it is safe to say he will never be a great QB. I know that if you game plan a first read to be open, it can look good play to play. And that's Nagy playing QB from the sideline. But as soon as you need any kind of leadership or added value from the QB, Trubisky falters. Will we keep him next year while a rookie learns under him? If that makes cap sense and you need to do it fine. But that's just about managing his way out the door, and not about growing him into a real QB, but replacing him.

ahahahaha AGREE

After all the years we got burned in cover 2 by the TE up the seam, youd wish it went our way for once hahahaha

Right, I totally agree, I'm not even talking about whether the stat is right or predictive. You're totally right about the factors etc. But yes, I think even in the situation you've said, the second QB does complete 69% more of his passes than the first one. You can say his completion percentage is 30 points higher. But if you use percent to qualify the amount, then it has to be a percentage?

Agree with all of this. The OL was SOOOOOO bad, and they had zero flexibility. That is coaching. So much of the Bears' problems is coaching. What is the upside to keeping Nagy? What does he do better than average?

Yeah we may keep Trubisky on a cheap deal to play until a rookie is ready, if Trubisky is even willing to stick around for that. But in no way shape or form should we sign Trubisky to any kind of longer deal with starter money.