BearFan PHX

Id like to look at some OL too. have you guys watched this week's Tape Never Lies? We have the worst OL I have ever seen. It's so bad there is no reason not to see how some younger players look. They could not be worse. If you replayed the season without Nagy and the OL, replacing instead with Pagano and a random OL, this team would be looking at at least 9-7 If you've never watched the Tape Never Lies, you are in for a treat. It is the answer, with your own eyes, to all of these discussions.

Id rather have that than a bunch of average players, so I guess I share his philosophy

yeah I thought about that when I wrote it hahahah maybe a GOOD one...

well said re: Trestman. Ugh.

It's a nice idea to think that the GM should make good picks, but the consensus on Trubisky was that he was the best QB. Most NFL GMs and NFL pundits thought so at the time. Maybe Nagy ruined him. But I digress... Championship poker players dont always get good cards. What makes them champions is not that they can win every hand, but that they can make smart bets and handle the chaos, maximizing their chances of winning over time. First round QBs are a real gamble. I give Pace credit for getting Trubisky. At the time, it was generally thought that he would be a good NFL QB, and Pace did what it took to make sure we got him. He didnt promise us that Trubisky couldnt be a bust. No GM knows that. What he did was get an in demand player and make sure he was a Bear. Im not ready to fire Pace. But to me his biggest failure was Nagy. I dont really care if Pace stays or we get a new GM. I just think Pace is pretty good. Will the next guy, picked by the McCaskeys be as good? I dunno. It's certainly possible. It's not like Pace is an A+, there is room for improvement. But if they keep him, I'd be good with that too. But Nagy and the entire offensive staff has to go. Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone, Hiestand and Childress all need to hit the road. Pagano is OK, but I'm open to new defensive coaches too. Whatever the new Head Coach needs. Maybe we will get a defensive oriented coach who will choose a run oriented offense to compliment. In all the chaos, please let's keep Mack.

you guys are coming around to my way of thinking. So now, two choices: 1) Fire Nagy now and get a look at Trubisky with a running game so you can make better decisions in the offseason 2) Wait until the end of the season, and then use NEXT YEAR to do the same thing. Why wouldnt we want to leapfrog a year? Only thing that makes this all moot is if Pace and Nagy are getting fired at the end of season and they want all new everyone.

Said simply - ***IF*** you keep Pace, it HAS to be to fire the staff and try again. If you keep them all, you deserve to burn at the bottom of the NFC North until they sell the team. There really should be no way that Pace AND Nagy are back next year. If that means you gotta fire Pace, then there's the door for all of them. But under no scenario should they keep Nagy. If they do, the fans will revolt. They have to fire him.

OK, so now I think it has become obvious that Nagy and a lot of the staff are going to get fired. Here's my rundown, top down PACE I'm 50/50 on him. I could see firing him and bringing in someone new to clean house entirely. Understand that we have no first round pick, so the new guy is probably gonna trade Mack for picks to fix this mess. There are a bunch of good QBs coming in the draft, so many that we might not need a high first round pick to get a good one with a future. The money we were earmarking for Trubkisy in the long term cap plan will now be available for free agent OL, DL and pass rushers, if we go with another cap friendly rookie deal QB through the draft. We might also sign a guy like Teddy Bridgewater. Serviceable, but never going to be a top 5 guy. So the question on Pace is fire him, and lose Mack, or keep him and try to keep Mack. You may argue that Pace hasnt shown he can choose a QB anyway. Then again, the McCaskey's havent shown they can choose a GM either, so pick your poison. Personally, I'm 50/50 on it. What you've heard me argue the last few weeks is that they should can Nagy to see what the OC can do with Trubisky and calling the plays. We are rapidly running out of time for that scenario, so now, if you wanna keep Mack, you might keep Pace. I dunno. NAGY MadLith said it all. Video game midget football. Seriously. You build a defense and won't run the ball on offense to play complimentary ball. Buddy Ryan would have punched him already. Please goodbye Nagy. THE REST OF THE STAFF You gotta let the new head coach pick his guys. Is there really anyone you're gonna cry over leaving? Pagano? Heistand?! Nope. Goodbye to all of em. So maybe you keep Pace, but only if he's gonna bring in a new staff. Would he? Crap that risk alone might be reason to fire him. PLAYERS QB We need one. I like the draft class at QB coming up this year but we dont have a first round pick. Then again, the QB class is very deep. Maybe we can get one in the late first round or early second. The league cant pick the good ones anyway before they play in the NFL, so who's to say the guy we get wont be awesome. There are a bunch of good ones this year. I assume we will want a vet for the rookie to play behind until he's ready. Dont spend Glennon money on that guy. Bridgewater is a good one. But not a great one. If the new coach wants to keep Trubisky and use him differently as the vet the new rookie plays behind thats fine - it gives us a few long shot good outcomes. If thats too politically difficult, thats fine too. Just let the new head coach be part of that decision. RB Montgomery is great. Cohen is a good 3rd down back / kick returner in a normal system. Were are good at RB, and Jordan Howard is a one trick pony, and we are better off. WR We have some good ones. Robinson is a legit #1. There are other up and comers in the pipeline. Wims, Miller and Ridley come to mind. If Gabriel sticks around for another year as a slot guy so be it. We might have to retool a bit if we go to a larger west coast offense, but we are in pretty good shape and dont need a serious Free Agent or anything. OL Trash. Horrible. Look for the most change here. What Pace did to the WR squad after Fox left, is what the Gm will do to the OL. This is one of the main areas that free agency money will go to. A new scheme will help a lot too. THese giuys were pulling all over the place, and we need some guys that can just move people. This will probably be a two year project to get totally right. TE Bad news. I dunno if we can fix this this year with all the other issues. Probably a mid tier free agent comes in. DEFENSIVE FRONT SEVEN We miss Hicks bad. He will be back though, and when you put him next to Mack, good things happen. Still, we clearly need another pass rusher, whether from DE or more likely in Floyd's slot. We won't have the draft capital for it either, so this is gonna be a free agent until the draft after this one at least. SECONDARY We are gonna need at least one CB. Again, this is probably going to have to be a free agent as draft picks learn behind. KICKER um, yeah. So this year's draft probably looks like QB, OL, OLB, CB, OL and this year's free agents QB, CB, OL, OL, TE It's a two year plan at least. It's not ALL bad news, but imagine if we'd fired Nagy two weeks ago, and the OC had established the run and Trubisky played regular vanilla offense and the Defense played OK. THAT's what Ive been talking about. We had a chance, of possibly saving a year off of that plan if we could prove that would work - that Nagy was the problem. But now, we cant waste another year to find that out and that possibility is gone. Flip a coin on Pace, but fire the rest either way. Do you want to keep Mack, or get two first round picks for him?

Im not ready to crown Pace king of the world or anything, but he hasnt done such a bad job for us. You have to add Mack to that list. He and Trubisky are what we bought with that draft capital. We have seen that the consensus in the league was the Trubisky would be the top QB taken. Obviously it hasnt worked out. Id like to see him get a chance with a different playcaller. Im not sure hes as bad as it looks. But the point is that Pace went out and got the guy everyone wanted. In 2018 he also took Miller Fitts and Wims. Not every pick is expected to be a pro bowl player, and these guys have all played roles in filling depth holes in our roster. In 2017, youre not gonna count Cohen? He was such a beast last year. That proves he was a valuable pick up. Maybe this is on Nagy? In fact, that's my thesis, and has been for a few weeks now. Last night was no different. Our roster DOES have talent!! Yes we need more on the OL, badly. But this team would be in a much better place if the playcalling hadnt been so atrocious. It was bad last year too, but the novelty of the passing game and a lot of turnovers from the defense hid a lot of the stink. As Ive been saying, you have two options. 1) fire everyone Pace on down and start OVER. thats gonna take a minimum of 3 to 4 years until we have a team to even watch. Also, ask yourself, who will hire the new savior GM that will choose all the new coaches and players? McCaskey? Do you really think they can get that right again? 2) try to mix up the chemistry, and salvage something from this team. That means keeping Pace. But it means firing Nagy. If Pace lets Nagy go, telling us that the coach hurt his hip, and just cant coach like they need him to (lol) then we can see Trubisky with a regular running game called in rhythm. Let's say it doesnt work. Let's say Im wrong. Cool, so what difference does it make? You can still fire everyone after the season. But why not use the rest of this season to see what we have without the bad playcalling? Trubisky was pretty good last night. The ball came out fast and was accurate for the most part. Ive been preaching this for a while, maybe you guys are starting to see what Im seeing?

agree, whatever there is to be said about the roster, how the players have performed etc etc, this "all star" staff deserves a lot of blame.

we could have won this game. so many wasted running plays that made no sense. Mitch actually had an ok game. coaching. coaching. coaching.

the other way to look at that is that when you get a deep roster, you lose players more. We didnt get nothing for the pick, we got a good look at him in comparison to others. Remember, last year the running game was invisible, and so Pace did a LOT to be sure to fix it. He used the shotgun approach, getting Davis in Free Agency, and drafting Montgomery and Whyte while picking up other low level free agents too. He never intended all of these players to make the roster. That would be impossible numbers wise. Was he that much of a fool? Or was he hedging his bet to be SURE to repair the running game? And now we see that it might be the playcalling more than the talent at Running Back that's holding the running game back. So this wasnt a failure by Pace, it was an example of having bought insurance and filling the position.

depends on how you think of it. with all that force focused on such a small point of contact, it could have been very bad.

I think we all should agree this season is lost. Having up and comers get playing time, and putting some plays on tape for offseason evaluation is a very good thing. If we have any young players on the OL and defensive front 7 we want to look at, that would be great too. The irony is, this has now become the preseason Nagy thought we could live without.

I gotta concur with BF2000 and Grizz on this. The entire league wouldn't look away from a possible franchise QB. Watch Antonio Brown come back and play. If you're a Pro Bowl player, they want you. Period.

honestly, even doing it just for a regular season win is childish. THink of your favorite NFL coach in history - or even your top 5, and ask yourself if any of them would have done this. And if not, ask yourself why.

One assumes they were playing games with perceptions of other teams as to who they were interested in etc. I doubt very highly it was laziness or lack of effort to do due dilligence.

even without all the politics etc, I just dont think he was that good.

totally. and I do think there is talent on this roster.

turnovers in the secondary are often a result of pressure from the defensive front. no pressure = EJ turnovers down.

It's not just a matter of opinion. The greatest coaches in NFL history have all treated their alpha competitive men in a less gentle way, and gotten better results from them. Of course he is trying to create momentum and mojo. But every coach is trying to do that, and the rest dont have dance parties. There must be other proven ways.

exactly. why they didnt switch at the bye is a mystery. Why it took 7 weeks to run the first power run from under center to montgomery with a lead blocker is another. and the disco dance parties are really starting to bug me.

I agree with him 100%. And he has to be talking about coaching, because he is talking about culture.

yes yes yes

yes