BearFan PHX

exactly, and suddenly, Ezra Cleveland is looking pretty good too

Austin Jackson? Me too.

makes sense - we will see of course.

do people think Jones will fall to 43? Id love to see it, but is it really likely? I havent read much either way.

Well I look at last year, and you look at his career, but we dont yet really know what Pace is seeing or thinking. By opening day we will of course, but for now, it still remains to be seen. Your points about rookies after Jones is well taken though.

It's a fair point, but I'm not sure Leno is any better. If I KNEW that Leno would be identical to last year again, then Id put anyone there and it couldnt be any worse.

it would be SO cruel.

Some of that I understand and agree with. The money part I dont. That money is gone either way. If you can afford to replace Leno, as long as you arent gonna keep him on your cap going forward, then you do it. The other argument, that the players available to us at 43 arent starter worthy unless someone falls, I sadly agree with. I do hope Jones falls of course, or someone else. I'd probably love to see Becton fall on the drug test, and see us package both 2nd rounders to get him. Of course that comes with it's own problems, as I assume we will also add a CB, safety or WR in the 2nd round too. I really thought Pace would bring in a free agent too, and maybe he still will - there are two very good short term players available in Peters and Williams, and their options are shrinking daily. But each would be hard to fit under the cap without cutting Patterson or something. Might be worth it, but Patterson brings value too, and Peters is no long term answer. I just have visions of Foles being killed by people running through Leno. I dont really know if Nagy's scheme is brilliant and next level or a gimmick, because we haven't had a chance to see it. We blame Trubisky a lot for it, and fairly, he hasnt shown much evidence to use in his defense either, but mostly, he was being pressured from the left on almost every throw. I think that if you find the 50th best QB in the world, and give him 5 consistent seconds of protection, he looks like a hall of famer. With 2 seconds or less, they mostly all look terrible.

Yes I understand some of those arguments for sure. Ill take em one at a time. 1) Leno was REALLY bad, and I think, if youd have average OLT play last year, we would have gone to the playoffs. I think a huge part of what is so bad about Trubisky was the Leno's guy was in his lap. Also we couldnt run to the left at all. And that was important after we coudlnt run to the right LOL What I sw wasnt just Leno getting beat, I saw him double teaming a guy with the guard while his guy cam unblocked WAY too often. Its the sort of mistake that pee wee players are able to fix. 2) I didn't think Leno was that great when he was a ProBowl alternate either, but obviously his 2018 was better than his 2019. I think if we had the 15th pick int he first round, we'd alkmost HAVE to pick an OLT if it wasnt a franchise QB still available. 3) this is the one I think is clouding all the writers' points of view. Who cares. Sunk money is sunk money. It's already gone. I dont think you should compound the problem by continuing to start a disaster at OLT. 4) This is a very good argument - probably the best one. I cant say that Prince Wanagho is worth the 43rd pick or could start. Im hoping Josh Jones falls, or someone even better. Maybe for a free agent like Jason Peters as a 2nd round guy grows, or a trade to Washington for Williams. Both are probably too expensive, but the window is closing for those players too this year. Im not sold that a safety or CB at 43 is gonna be a world beater either though. Thanks for the answer dawhizz!

hey Adam, Please tell me why you didnt just put Leno and Massie on the regular list? I dont mean it to be fighty - Im really asking. In olight of my comment just abovr yours Im clearly not seeing something. I know you and I have agreed that OLT is a need, so is it the assumption that a starter wont be available when our pick comes, but those other positions do have legit starters? I feel like Im missing something, and so I am legitimately asking for your thought process.

I'm stupid too. I know I am a broken record, but I can't imagine that they're doing nothing about OLT. To me, it was the biggest weakness on our team last year and a huge part of the offensive failures at QB and in the running game. I keep thinking they must have some sort of plan. But the writers are talking about WRs and TEs and CBs and I feel like I'm living in a bizarro world. I keep thinking that Pace has identified this position for his draft pick or a later Free Agent signing (or both) and is playing chess over our heads (wishful thinking) but I don't understand how the writers are all missing it too.

The finances and picks and all that work out, but I don't see Belichick being a Trubisky fan at this point. But imagine the nightmare if Belichick took Trubisky, and turned him into a 10 year all pro.

New England has a lot of picks. I wonder if they'll move up and grab a major QB prospect.

one finer point: The Pats have to pay the guaranteed portion of Gronks contract whether he stays retired, plays for the Pats, or gets traded to TB. It's the same to NE's cap. The difference is that Gronk said he'd stay retired unless they traded him, so the Pats can upgrade a 7th round pick to a 4th round or not. And of course they chose to do that rather than spite Gronk. But the idea that Gronk waited until a certain moment to put NE into a bind isnt right. Instead, he worked this out before the draft where NE was more likely to be willing to do it. And they did.

I still think Jason Peters is out there too. Each of these guys may want big money, and possibly even deserve it, but when the music stops playing, there are only a couple chairs left, and we might get lucky and snag one on a short deal while a draft picks learns and puts on muscle.

Yeah, I was thinking of Cleveland and Jackson. I would be against reaching for Wanogho at 43 for sure, and Niang and Wilson are probably ROTs anyway. I can definitely see the draft shaking out so that we take our OT at 50 rather than 43, but if our scouts have different ratings on guys that the common wisdom that could change everything - and then we pray they were right.

BPA of OT, S, CB, WR as long as one of the two picks is an OT.

oops youre right! Id alos look at some of the other LOTs too rather than trading out of that spot. I think that either 43 or 50 are going to an OLT, but I would be Ok if the right player fell at 43 to wait until 50 for it.

Of course I think you need to put an OLT on that list too.

It looks appetizing, and if you have good grades on players that are in that range, then you do the trade. I worry about the falloff, and would prefer something where we trade 43 (or 50) for two picks, one no lower than 100 (or 70!), and the other within 10 slots of the first pick, and only if you get there and have enough equally graded picks available that you think youre still gonna get one of your guys with the lower pick. So all in all, three picks looks juicy, but you might have to fall too far to get them? It would all depend on the board I guess.

I totally agree, but we've both been seeing this the same way since January.

OK. I thought you were smarter. It was my mistake. Carry on - I wont be offended or care much from here on out - if you want to play stupid, then I believe you.

could well be. also, if he can get just a little protection that might make a huge difference too

our two 2nd rounders together equal trading to LV to get our original first round pick back from them LOL Maybe we could trade into the middle of the first round for a QB or Becton falling.

no - you have to read what I said. I didnt predict them all to be cut. I predicted Robinson not to be cut. He was on the list because cutting him mathematically clears up cap space. Not because I think its a good idea or predict it. And cutting some Tight Ends inherently means we are more likely to keep others for example. Of the 4 I predicted, 3 have been cut. As to it being a contest or not, I use words like "probably" and "likely" and "I think"- youre the one who told me I was crazy and spoke in absolutes. And over the last two months, it's shown that I was right, and continues to move that way. So, time will tell, but the final scoreboard will not be opinion, we will all see what happens. I have patience, but for the next round, I will keep the authority of having won the last one.