BearFan PHX

well we can take some solace in the fact that one way or another, those numbers are going to change drastically based on tonight's (and this weekend's) outcomes

lol in the worst year of Brady's career, aging and without and WRs LOL Trubisky also threw more touchdown passes this year than Brett Favre did.

The wild card race looks like this: SF 10-2 Minn 8-4 LARams 7-5 Bears 6-6 If we win tonight, we will be 7-6, a half game behind LARams (who own the tiebreaker over us) and 1 1/2 games behind Minnesota (and we own the tie breaker over them, but will play a second time) We are on the cusp of the playoffs, but a lot needs to happen for that to be real. Getting Hicks back will make a huge difference, but the Bears will have to pull this one out without him against a good Dallas team.

I dont see how we can put awful players on the field just because their contracts are huge. I hope Pace doesnt think that way.

that article also says the Bears have the 8th best pass blocking OL in the league. No freakin way. All you have to do is watch some. They are atrocious.

yes. we need a lot of changes on the OL, no matter what our current OTs are being paid, they simply cant play. We have to replace them. and add a road grading guard, becausea converted DL is not gonna make it. I think Daniel and Whitehair are the only ones who will keep their jobs, and even they arent 100% safe.

we need our 2nd rounders for QB and OL

He is definitely worth a lot less, and the Bears will offer a severely renegotiated offer. Given the mystique this defense has, and just the value of the position, someone may want to over pay him. If his agent is smart at all, he will not re-sign a lower deal without testing the market first. I think Pace has to consider that he will be gone in his plans. And once you go there, therer will be other options just as good at the same price, so I think he is gone.

Youre right. If Trubisky looks as good as he did against the Lions while playing playoff caliber teams, that would be a real step forward. I dont think Trubisky will ever be elite, but I do think we can get some more out of him, and draft a 2nd round rookie QB to compete. I generally think Nagy is the problem, and there are many examples and facets to that. Just one is the number of penalties this team gets that wipe out big plays on offense and defense. That's bad coaching. There are many more examples I wont add here. Yes, Trubisky can be decent in a sane offense that has an actual OL and a logical offensive scheme.

Well for one thing, the OL is being asked to do a lot of pulling and trapping in the run game. Very seldom are they being asked to just take the guy in front of them. Teams have figured it out, and defensive linemen are just filling the hole, but not getting caught in the traps. When that happens, when the element of surprise doesnt work, it puts the OL in a bad position where they have to turn and block, and so a supposed advantage turns into a disadvantage. That said, I have seen SO many instances of our OL being on the wrong side of a block, and failing to handle their man. It's pretty much every play. The players, coaching and scheme all suck around the OL. Fire Hiestand, and replace at least three of the players. And get a new head coach LOL

I agree with you guys. Maybe Trubisky and Nagy will never pan out. Maybe they are both busts. But if you're gonna try to keep the baby and only lose the bathwater, you gotta pick which one youre gonna try to rehabilitate without the other. For me, a successfully rehabbed Trubisky is harder to replace than a rehabbed Nagy. Coaches are free agents and dont require draft picks or cap room. Plus Im seeing more light at the end of the tunnel with Trubisky than with Nagy. Like I said, maybe they will both flame out, but if you want to try to save one by seeing if they can thrive without the other, my money is on Trubisky.

all good points. I gotta agree that Hiestand has to go. But by the same token Nagy... I repeat myself...

Good to see Nall, Lucas, Wims and others are getting in some. That means they know that they have to start thinking about next year.

I have no problem for him trading up to get a franchise QB he believes in. I actually give him points for making sure he got his guy. The problem is he targeted the wrong guy.

the Giants arent any good either, which is making the football look a little better today, but even so they are all over the place. This is not growth.

Everyone on this team is making dumb mistakes. It's almost as if the coaching is the problem

We're all thinking it, trying to figure out how to fix the team going forward. There are a few obvious plans. One possibility is that they'll fire Pace and let the new GM clean house in every way. This isn't a bad idea at all, and it's probably the most likely one. If you think there is nothing redeemable here, then you're starting over from scratch. It'll take a few years to put it together, especially since we don't have a first round pick this year. So Mack won't be around and in his prime when you finally get it back together, and suddenly you understand what Gruden was thinking and you trade Mack for a couple of firsts to get it going. Except you can't. He has close to $60 Million dollars in dead cap value. So you have to build on what you have. You literally have to wait at least another year before you can really do anything about finding a possible franchise QB. Your options are free agents, 2nd round draft picks. Pace (if he stays) won't have the juice to trade future first rounders to move up now to get one of the first round Qbs. He cant really package the two 2nds to do it unless he plans on starting this new rookie behind our current line, which by the way eats a lot of cap room and is also locked in in a lot of ways. Dont get me wrong, I expect at least three new starters next year, but were gonna have to eat a lot of cap on at least one of the two OTs, and if the other one stays around, that's gonna hurt us on the field or be an expensive backup. We're going to need all of our picks, and so we are likely looking at OL and QB in the 2nd round, and more OL, CB, TE, OLB and MLB, and no matter who we get, we are going to have to run the ball and have the defense lead the team next year. So that means that we dont have to fill every hole to win now, but we have to make good developmental choices instead. Without a first round pick, or a ton of salary cap room, next year will not be a GMs paradise. Another typical NFL plan would be to make Pace and Nagy et al babysit the team next year, with clear instructions about drafting and developing an OL. And then after next year they would all be fired, and a very attractive situation would appear for a new GM and coach looking to add the right few skill players to a solid but not flashy core. Our lack of flexibility to address these problems comes directly from Pace. He's the one that married us to Massie and Leno. He's the one that traded away future picks. It was a bold move, and he surely got value for them, but one of the things he traded away was the ability to make evaluations and change course at the end of this season specifically. Pace traded the 2020 season to give us this 2019 season. And Nagy did this with it. If they arent all fired this year, it'll be because they have to babysit the mess they made and then get fired next year. So the third way of looking at it is to salvage something, and change something, and try to get a jump on next year. I was asking for that a few weeks ago. Frankly, it's too late now. And sadly, the change they were/are flirting with was showing us (Nagy + Daniels) instead of (Trubisky - Nagy). And neither of those scenarios changes the OL. I guess the argument I was making a few weeks ago was without Nagy, maybe just blocking forward in power running schemes would reveal some ability in either Massie or Leno. At any rate, theres a full analysis of the three paths (fire everyone now, fire everyone after next year, fire Nagy now) and they all suck. And it is becoming clearer and clearer that these choices by Pace are a fatal blow to 2019 and 2020: Hiring Nagy Signing long terms deals with Leno and Massie Thinking Hiestand would turn Coward into a GOOD NFL OL Drafting Trubisky over Watson or Mahomes Drafting Leonard Floyd Failing to find even an average kicker after several tries Being overly aggressive in pursuing his plans, trading too many future picks as a general strategy Pace and Nagy have spent big and schemed bold, put all the chips in, and ended up with an atrocious product on the field. Maybe the best long term effect of this is that it brings us closer to ownership selling the team. We are not only terrible, but locked in. It doesnt get worse than this in the NFL. Or course it'll only last a couple years. Spring will come. But the "window" for this era is firmly propped open, and it's freezing and raining outside. One variation on the keep them as babysitters while you add to the roster on OL argument would be to fire Pace after this year, and tell the new GM that he gets a jump on 2021 by drafting those developmental players but keeping Nagy etc for 2020 only. That might actually make the most sense.

TOTALLY agree

I just want to jump in and say that I said Gabriel was going to be done after this year, before the year started

I understand the thinking behind paying our OTs. The idea is that OLs build consistency with time, and Hiestand is the best OL coach in the universe yada yada I get why they did it. But it isnt working at ALL. Talent matters. You could keep a group of 120 pound gymnasts together for five years, and they'd get a LOT of consistency. And they wouldn't be able to stop an NFL pass rush, or move anyone in the running game. We need new players on the OL. Don't be shocked if there are 3 or 4 new starters next year. They may not all be Pro Bowlers, and it may take a few years to put together a GOOD OL, but even mid tier free agency signings should make a HUGE difference. Also, Hiestand, here is a lifetime achievement award. At times you must have earned it to have the reputation you have. But this OL is an indictment of your current skills, and you have to go. We are SUCH a poorly coached team. NEXT.

I think youre just looking at a very poorly coached team that has given up on caring.

It's all true. It's like standing in a field that's on fire and someone shoots an arrow into your leg. We can argue "if it werent for the arrow, maybe we could run out of the blaze. But theres a LOT of fire, and you could say without the fire, the arrow would be survivable. They all suck. But who is more easily replaced? I mean, if you get rid of em all, that's one way to go. It just costs a few years. If they can salvage anything from Trubisky, they should try. But not with this offense. And not with this OL. But if they moved on from Nagy AND Trubisky would that be OK? Sure. And obviously whatever happens, OL replacements are inevitable. But Nagy or (and?) Trubisky have to go, because this is a total disaster.

In terms of Hiestand, yes i agree. In terms of Nagy? Im not sure. Maybe theyll fire Pace and everyone else, but I hope they keep Pace and fire Nagy and the staff. But it's like a 55/45 thing. if they get a new GM, Ill be excited about that too. I just hope to save some bathwater...

truth. so we can fire everyone, or try Nagy without Trubisky, or Trubisky without Nagy. you know what I think.

Id like to look at some OL too. have you guys watched this week's Tape Never Lies? We have the worst OL I have ever seen. It's so bad there is no reason not to see how some younger players look. They could not be worse. If you replayed the season without Nagy and the OL, replacing instead with Pagano and a random OL, this team would be looking at at least 9-7 If you've never watched the Tape Never Lies, you are in for a treat. It is the answer, with your own eyes, to all of these discussions.