BearFan PHX

Oh it's rare, but I gotta say it when we agree. Jason, you are correct.

Interesting. Plus he led the greatest comeback in NFL history

Remember all the blown coverages and huge missed tackles the first few weeks of the season? They were ALL Demps. If theyre doing due diligence, or keeping depth so be it, but I dont want to see that guy starting again unless an injury forces it.

I just see that Fox makes terrible choices in time management, and replay challenges. It seems like he isnt smart enough to really do a great job. I think he gets people, and we were lucky to have him as we began to build this culture, but I also think we can find a better coach now at this point.

Here's a different take on Fox. I think we were LUCKY to have him. Yes, I see everything you all see too. And yes, I think it's time for him to go. But realize this was a rebuilding project, and we wanted a legit coach to change the culture and begin to install the Parcells tree 3-4 etc. Consider also that no one would have wanted this job, knowing that they would look awful for at least 2 years and probably get fired before the fruit ripened. So yes, it's time for Fox to go. I hope we can keep Fangio, but if not, so be it. But we were lucky to get this staff for the last 3 years, and now we are in a position to get a better coach with a different mission who can build on the culture that Fox taught here, and is shared by the Parcells tree coaches. That kind of lasting culture is what makes teams stable and strong. Pace is doing well. He got us a great interim coach, and now he has a chance to get us the guy to take the next step.

I think thats when players feel slighted, when they wanted to be there and they got traded or cut instead. This guy wanted out. Hes got no passion.

LOL they draft sign Trubisky to be the backup, they clearly drafted him to be the starter of the future, and therefore they didnt think Glennon would be the franchise QB. I think we agree, since you speak of "the plan"?

We agree!

Totally agree. Forgot to even mention Bullard. If Floyd and Bullard come on, this team is dangerous on D.

Agree with almost all of this, but Demps is awful. All those broken plays the first few weeks were on him. I'm never glad to see anyone injured, but I am glad he is out of the lineup, and dont ever really want to see him in there again. That guy will lose games for you. The rest tho? Absolutely, the secondary is starting to look decent. The whole defense is coming together. I'd like to see Floyd step up some too.

I think this is dead on. I agree completely.

Precisely.

Exactly. You said it better than I did.

I agree with all of that.

And here it is in a nutshell. You need to understand the difference between who a player can become and who they are at the moment of drafting. You're conflating the two into an oversimplified argument. IF a player has a good shot to be a franchise QB in a year or two, but might need some time to develop, then you might take them high, and still give them a minute to develop. Your argument is that a player like that should be taken lower. You assume that it's easy to find a franchise QB, and only one ready to go is worth taking. PAce saw a different route. If Trubisky flourishes, then Pace was right. thats all.

YES!

yeah cuz I laid out the scenarios that supported that conclusion. Mostly Im talking about Jason here. I sure hope Trubisky lights it up Monday night, but even if he starts slowly, and isn't great this year, I am excited to see the player I hope he will become.

Some on this board argue that if you are the #2 pick, then you are ready to start in the NFL. They say if you arent, then you shouldnt be the #2 pick. This totally discounts the scenario where a player has incredible upside, but maybe only started 13 games in college. You can say #2 = starter in all cases, but that's overgeneralizing, and misses the specific scenario we and Pace were in. In reality, each situation is different, and it is possible that a player is worthy of the #2 pick and not ready to start immediately, this is especially true in the situation of a possible future franchise quarterback who is a green and might need some time. Given also that he didnt play under center much, they didnt know at the time how long it might take for him to be comfortable receiving the snap. The fact is that Trubisky is starting Monday night in large part because Glennon has been awful. Had Glennon been solid but unspectacular, Trubisky might not be starting yet, even if we had lost 3 games. That Trubisky has developed faster than people thought he might is a sign that Pace made a GOOD choice, but somehow people want to twist it around. I know the meatheaded football arguer type. They cling to oversimplified facts like dogma. Thank god they arent GM, theyd fire everyone after each mistake and have nothing, until they were fired themselves. But boy is it tiresome to hear them lecture oversimplified ideas as if we dont understand them, when in fact, they really just reveal their limited cognitive abilities.

You REALLY dont get it. Trubisky wasnt thought to be ready, but looked to be a future franchise player. What is that worth? Also we were getting trade up offers from Cleveland, so we knew what they were offering SF as well. Pace decided to grab him, even though he thought he'd need a season to develop. What is so hard to understand about that? Being picked #2 doesnt change your experience level, and you seem to think that if he wasnt NFL starter ready then he wasnt worth #2. So you just dont get it.

yup

this is how I see it too. people think that a GM should have a 100% success rate. It's just not realistic. World championship poker players win year after year by winning more than they lose, but they lose PLENTY of hands. I see this kind of thinking in the corporate world. It goes something like this: The best investment is to kidnap a stock broker and his family, tie them up in a warehouse in NJ, and then shoot one of the kids to make sure everyone knows we are serious. Then you put the gun to the brokers head and DEMAND the price of Google stock 2 months from now. That's what suffices for "you failed fire him!" logic. Pace is doing well. He won't win every battle. I am confident he didnt promise anyone that Trubisky WOULD be a hall of fame QB. What Pace did was simply to evaluate the risks and outcomes and try to make a winning play. If Pace for example thought Trubisky has a 70% chance of becoming a real franchise QB on the level of Drew Brees, then he pulls the trigger. It doesnt mean he KNOWS he is right, it means it's the right move to make. ANything beyond that, while common in sports debates, relies on superstition and reactive thinking.

This is what the Pace signing is all about. After two decades without a GM (it still baffles me, the ONLY team in sports) and a few tries at yes men GMs, the Bears ownership finally gave up and asked the league for help. They sent Ernie Accorsi, the architect of the Parcells Giants, to oversee the next move. He was like our GM for a couple months. He went and found Pace, a Parcells tree guy. Now dont get me wrong, Im not saying Bill Parcells is such an amazing coach that GMs three generations removed still feel his personal influence. But instead, I am talking about a specific football culture. Some teams, like the Packers, have run the same basic formations and approaches for YEARS. When that happens, you get a lot of benefits. Take as a given that you can't have perfect players at every position. You are going to build a team, a system, out of imperfect parts. Maybe you dientify certain skills you need each position to have, and other skills that would be nice to have, but if they are missing in a player, wont be emphasized as much based on the role you ask that player to play in your system. This is the essence of football culture. The Parcells tree is a group of coaches and talent evaluators that all subscribe to a specific system. When your coaches and scouts all know what it takes to play outside linebacker in your system, they can agree on selecting players who's strengths and weaknesses that fit into the overall picture. And when you get that rookie, they play under players who have similar skill sets. The older players can show them how to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. And they can go watch film of players with similar attributes make the same plays they are being asked to make. This is what Pace is bringing us. Also, when you have a stocked established team with a franchise QB, you can play the draft game the way the Patriots do. But when you are the Bears, you gotta take risks. There is no sure fire stud QB out there waiting. You have to take chances. You have to reach for players sometimes too if you believe they can be the player you need. But when you do it int he context of an overall football culture, you stand a better chance of getting it right. The best poker player int he world does not win every hand, and his or her strategy never contemplated winning every hand. It's about taking good risks, and winning more than you lose. Pace is all that and more. Fox has been a good caretaker. He was probably the highest caliber of coach we could have gotten to babysit this team while we built the past few years. I am thankful for him. I would not be the least bit surprised if Pace gets a new coach after this year. If he does, it will be another Parcells tree guy. And it might be a promotion from within (Fangio?) or at the least some coaches may stay. Even if they dont, if Pace is making the call, the new staff will see things in such a similar way to the old one that you will have the stability you and the Bears both want. I also wont be surprised if Shaheen eventually grows into a stud. But I am also not surprised that we took a guy who needs a year at QB or TE either. It was the best shot of having a great player NEXT YEAR. We're on the right road, and it will take a couple more years to really get there. But by the end of this season we should be seeing sparks of whats to come. When we get receivers and a few more pieces on D, we will be a contender. Im not sure people understood how far away fromt hat we were a few years ago, or how you get from here to there in the real world. Accorsi hiring Pace was the best thing that could have happened.

Where are you able to see the all 22? Id sure love to see that!

well said.

The Bears never would have signed Glennon if they weren't drafting a QB. There is a plan here, and it's working. Glennon was supposed to be better, but Trubisky is ahead of schedule, and will sit for a while longer. This is going to end well.