BearFan PHX

damn can you imagine?!

Both of our running backs could use an upgrade, and I dont know any names yet, but I dont doubt your research. Consider also that if you upgrade the OL, every running back looks better!

you need players too. Johnson has the best OL in football, and his offense is predicated on play action passing. Of course everything is working. And don't get me wrong - I love how Johnson shows you something and maybe twice and then uses your expectations to go the other way when you think youve read the play. That kind of conditioning is really great for offenses. Contrast that with Nagy's "you cant tell what we are doing" approach which doesnt work as well. But Johnson isnt the only coach that gets this. Lots of pro coaches know this. Schemes come and go. But players win games, and coaches build cultures. yes we need an OC who understands schemes, but that isn't so hard to find. McCarthy will have lots of contacts, and a good idea of who would be good choices to hire from among people we havent heard of yet, because of his years at the Packers and the Cowboys. His winning percentage over a large sample size is impressive. A lot of the super bowls he didnt win were won by the Patriots and the Chiefs. So you can indict the entire rest of the league for not being Belichick or Reid, but then again, they have/had Brady and Mahomes. Mahomes wins all these superbowls, some with Nagy around, so maybe Caleb has a higher ceiling than Dak Prescott? Maybe that's where McCarthy will get over the hump? Also, you cant overlook the experience head coaches get over time. Belichick was not great with the Browns, Reid didnt win the big one with Philly. By your logic, youd have overlooked both? Johnson is smart, but Trestman was smart too. He got our offense moving, but the team didnt have that edge, the defense fell apart, and you know the rest. Let's get a head coach to be the head coach, and an OC to be the OC.

I love it. He will set the culture, and develop Caleb. Best of both worlds.

thanks for that - I had missed it, and youre right. It makes McCarthy and Tomlin even more similar. I suppose the biggest difference is that McCarthy came from the offensive side of the ball and Tomlin from the defensive side. But i wonder how much that matters to someone who has been a head coach for well over a decade as they both have. Certainly Bill Belichick was a monster offensive thinker, but he came up the ranks on the defensive side. I understand if someone is coming from being a coordinator how it might matter, but if someone has been head coach for a long time; McCarthy, Tomlin, Carroll - I think at some point they probably have ideas on both sides of the ball. And I mean, how can you be a successful offensive coordinator if you don't understand defenses and vice versa?

I think McCarthy and Tomlin are very similar. Both are tough culture builders with experience, and long sustained winning. McCarthy has never won a SB and Tomlin has one in 2008. McCarthy is an offensive guy who has worked with big name QBs. Both are getting older, some say neither can win the big game again, but both have high floors. Each is possibly available after long stints with a team that had a lot of winning, but didn't dominate against the top teams. Either one would be a good hire for us. Between the two I think I'd go with McCarthy. But given that we really need a culture builder and THEN a schematic wizard, I like the idea of Pete Carroll with a top flight OC/assistant head coach who will take over as HC after Carroll retires and has built a sustainable culture. As much of a whiz as Ben Johnson is, I dont think we have the foundation and culture yet to go right to the whiz kid. I dont love the idea of bringing in a Fox type guy and then a whiz as a head coach after that because of all the upheaval, so the Pete Carroll concept looks pretty good to me. I mean, you get the tough guy, but you dont lose your OC and eventually he becomes your offensive minded head coach after the foundation is built, without having to change underlings, systems etc. But honestly, I'd be fine with any of those guys over Johnson. And Im not saying Johnson wont be a tough culture builder. I just dont know if he will, and we need one for sure. If that first time HC doesnt pay off, say goodbye to Caleb and wait another 20 years for a QB.

I think youre right - we could really use them this year though I wonder if we can trade them this year

very interesting. check out his ranking on winning percentage (37th all time) vs other notable coaches. Hes been doing it a long time, big sample size, and he beats out guys like Landry, McVey, Carroll, Holmgren, Parcells, Noll. His .608 all time winning percentage compares favorably to Bill Walsh .609 Marty Schottenheimer .613 Sean Payton .618 If you remove head coaches with fewer than 8 years experience (smaller sample size compared to McCarthy's 18 years), his rank would be 26th all time. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches

right - thats why I think Kingsbury deserves some of the credit, and i dont know how much is Daniels in terms or reading the whole field? Waldron was in over his head 100%, and Brown had to keep the same playbook, so i dont blame him so much. That doesnt mean Brown is ready to be OC or HC, but he was handcuffed from the start too.

Yes Daniels deep ball accuracy was always good, and Caleb's is questionable for sure. I feel comfortable talking about Caleb's strengths and weaknesses, but I really don't know Daniels. I also know that Kingsbury flamed out in Arizona, and eventually the league figured out his tricks, although he has new tricks now, and in time they will be figured out too. And I feel that is true of any scheme. McVey was a great a example of that - he was killing the league until Fangio showed how to beat him. This is why Im skeptical of a scheme guy being able to dominate on scheme alone, hence my worries about Johnson. I wasnt so much saying i want Kingsbury for us as just being surprised with all the success Daniels has had why he isnt getting any love, not just from us, but the coaching search this year in general.

well argued. i cant disagree. also a good point

I haven't watched a lot of Daniels this year, so I could just be regurgitating pre draft talking points here, but I think Daniels is a one read kind of guy. But even if he has developed, or maybe especially because he has developed, I think it's interesting that Kliff Kingsbury isnt getting more love in the coaching searches for various teams?

I dunno if you can learn toughness, but I agree that he is a top name for our job. I do have concerns, but they are just because i dont know, not because I do know something negative, just the unknown for me. He could well come in and be great. And if he is a our choice then I really hope so. But Id feel more comfortable with a leader than a schemer.

I don't see how Tomlin would want to come here when he has Justin there to work with LOL (yes I know that makes no sense for like 5 different reasons, but I couldnt help it LOL)

I think it's hard to imagine any real news being leaked at this point, so everything that comes out, even from Halas Hall is probably meant for some spin. I'm not saying it isn't true, spin can be true too, but someone put it out for a reason, even if the network guys pick it up too? Im not saying youre wrong at all, just saying that if something is released, there is a reason for it.

Unless they like someone else better. I know we are all reading in the press that Johnson is the greatest thing to ever come along as a coach, and if we do choose him I hope to hell he is and i will be cheering for him, but it is possible another candidate, one with more head coaching experience will be the choice.

So Vrabel is going to the Patriots. I gotta say i really liked the idea of him as Head Coach. I'm sad to see him off the list. I predict the Patriots will do well under his leadership. Wish it was us.

thank you - hes just a name to me, I dont know anything about him.

agree on both counts a ham sandwich would be better LOL I dont think Tua is soft - I just think if your head coach is telling you you dont even belong in the NFL, that's borderline abusive, and doesnt build a player up. Accountability is necessary but "bullying" isn't. You can be really tough with a player, Im no participation trophy guy. I want Vrabel. I wanted Harbasugh. but i think Flores crossed that line. Also he is suing the league for racism. Thats a huge red flag for me. Does anyone really think the NFL is racist? And if you dont, Then what kind of a-hole does this? Flores is too much drama for me. Tough is one thing, but if Harbaugh was too much, then Flores is double too much. At least Harbaugh wins everywhere.

he'd make a good OC / asst head coach for Carroll to groom if we go that way?

this is what i expect too. i think when you watch the game on TV, you see Caleb holding the ball, or not throwing to an open man, and later you see that there was no throwing lane, or he was looking elsewhere with hie progression etc. The all 22 really tells the story. But yeah, mostly, the OL was just awful this year - that was easy to see on TV. And for sure there are times Caleb needs to be better too. But i think overall, he did well for his rookie year, and if we give him an Ol and an offensive scheme, i think he will be great.

I agree, but Id take Flores off of the list for how he treated Tua - if he ever spoke to Caleb that way I'd fire him on the spot. Suing the league for discrimination is a close second too. What a jerk.

yeah, I think a lot of these interviews are for possible coordinators too. i cant see us seriously considering Rivera for the HC, but maybe they are being kind and giving him some cred.

club dub lol

Also, we have something we havent had before - Caleb Williams. A lot of coaches are going to want to work with him.