BearFan PHX

ha we may be drafting Vea or Ridley and an extra pick!

yes if only a few spots, buffalo?

hmm maybe nelson goes to indi, and the QBs are dropping

yup, or if one QB goes and both Nelson and Chubb go, we have trade offers

Big surprises from Cleveland taking Mayfield and Ward Nelson falling.

is there a chat room?

Im feeling the same way this year. Lot's of good defensive playmakers will be available to choose from no matter what happens.

yup, I just posted the other list too, so I guess all it proves is that people who oughtta know, disagree

and to be fair to the Roquan Smith crowd, Mike Mayock has them ordered differently in his top 20, on thre same NFL.com site. LOL who knows? 1. Saquon Barkley, RB, Penn State 2. Quenton Nelson, OG, Notre Dame 3. Bradley Chubb, DE, N.C. State 4. Roquan Smith, LB, Georgia 5. Minkah Fitzpatrick, S, Alabama 6. Derwin James, S, Florida State 7. Sam Darnold, QB, USC 8. Mike McGlinchey, OT, Notre Dame 9. Josh Allen, QB, Wyoming 10. Vita Vea, DT, Washington 11. Tremaine Edmunds, LB, Virginia Tech 12. Jaire Alexander, CB, Louisville 13. Rashaan Evans, LB, Alabama 14. Marcus Davenport, DE, UTSA 15. Denzel Ward, CB, Ohio State 16. Da'Ron Payne, DT, Alabama 17. James Daniels, C, Iowa 18. Harold Landry, DE, Boston College 19. Frank Ragnow, C, Arkansas 20. Leighton Vander Esch, LB, Boise State

So NFL.com has player rankings and gives each player a specific value. Their scale is 9.00-10 Once-in-lifetime player 8.00-8.99 Perennial All-Pro 7.50-7.99 Future All-Pro 7.00-7.49 Pro Bowl-caliber player 6.50-6.99 Chance to become Pro Bowl-caliber player 6.00-6.49 Should become instant starter etc These are their rankings of who the player is TODAY. So only five players in the draft are in the 7s, but there are players in the league who are int he 8s, and maybe even a 9 or two. (even though thats mathematically impossible LOL) Anyway, they have these players as the top 17... RB Saquon Barkley 7.45 OG Quentin Nelson 7.34 DE Bradley Chubb 7.32 LB Tremaine Edmunds 7.17 QB Sam Darnold 7.00 WR Calvin Ridley 6.83 LB Roquan Smith 6.74 DL Vita Vea 6.50 DL Da'Ron Payne 6.50 DB Derwin James 6.44 RB Derrius Guice 6.41 DL Taven Bryan 6.45 DB Denzel Ward 6.31 LB Leighton Vander Esch 6.25 QB Josh Rosen 6.19 DB Minkah Fitzpatrick 6.19 DL Harold Landry 6.15 That's a lot of love for Nelson and Edmunds, and an answer to those who say Edmunds needs a red shirt year more than any normal rookie.

I think you're right. I think at #8 Pace could take the 3rd or 4th best option in any of our minds, and we'd still get a damned good player that can help us. He may surprise us and pick Vita Vae or a WR. But I think it'll be Nelson or a defender. And everyone already knows who I hope it is. But would I hold Minkah Fitzpatrick responsible for not being on my short list? Nope. I'd start rooting for him right away.

I think the difference in Edmunds being not ready and Smith being plug and play are overstated. I see film where Smith struggles with blocks, and I see a lot of productivity from Edmunds. I think that for each player, they list pros and cons, and if you read that relative to everyone else, it can almost seem like every player is about equal in that they both have pluses and minuses. They say Edmunds is young and needs to grow. That might be another way of saying his ceiling is SO much higher that he will grow into a hall of famer. That doesnt mean that he is inherently less ready for the NFL than Smith. If you believe in your coaches, you take Edmunds. If you're a Jerry Angelo play it safe floor guy, you take Smith. Also, this is not a year in the "open window" so hitting the ground running this year is less important than securing the best player for 2019 and beyond. I truly believe that Edmunds will be a force in the NFL. If you watch his tape, his tackiling is ALWAYS heads up - he envelops ball carriers, he has tremendous speed and can cover in man like a safety. His hips are incredibly fluid and his wingspan - he just eats up ball carriers. If you havent seen him on tape, watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_alNNzT1n0

I think this is a good possibility

right on. Im with you.

Great exercise! I purposely didn't cheat, and I still picked Edmunds. Well done. I'd like to point something out to those who want another OLB edge rusher. You only bring one of them in a base defense, the other does coverage. If both OLB rush the passer in a 3-4 alignment, that's a blitz. I can't imagine people think we ought to be blitzing on every down. Having two OLB edge rushers doesn't make a lot of sense. You'd always be putting one into coverage. If on the other hand, you want to drop floyd sometimes, and bring pressure from another angle, there's no reason that it can't come from the ILB position. In fact, that's even tougher to diagnose. I just want to repeat it again - you don't rush two edge rushing OLB unless you're blitzing. And if you're blitzing, the 5th man doesnt have to come from the OLB position at all. Also, you'd be wasting the edge rusher's skills if you had him (or Floyd) in coverage on most downs anyway. If you want another base defense pass rusher, make it a 3-4DE. If you want a blitzing change of pace linebacker, it can be in the middle too, and make it someone who has coverage skills too. That's why I like Edmunds.

my guy - Tremaine Edmunds my likes - Nelson, Ward, Vae hate - McGlinchey

Thanks! I think most of people on this board are smart, and reasonable. We've all seen enough football to admit that no one really knows anything for sure. There are only a small number of dogmatic and myopic posters who get an idea and then wont let it go. most boards and sites are filled with them, I love this place, Im SO glad it's back. Thank you again for it.

and we started him at WLB because he wasnt ready to shed blocks int he NFL!

Exactly. We had 20 years of drafting off of the common wisdom, and every year we felt an amazing player fell to us. We picked one Stan Thomas or David Terrell after another. The fact is that the good teams have their own values on these players, especially uncovering the hidden issues that we dont see from our perspective here on the sidelines. And with the rare exceptions of the first five picks or so, they ALL need to project how they will be int he NFL after they grow, and that's not something you can just see from game film either. We know a lot, but Pace and the staff know a lot more than we ever can.

Lynch plays OLB, and Edmunds will play ILB. Edmunds will take over for Kwitkowski, and eventually Trevathan when he slows down.

Sure, but if you want to mess up the offense, you dont bring the guy to OLB, you rush him from the ILB position and let Floyd get into coverage on that play. I love Edmunds at 8. But I trust Pace and the staff to get this right, they have more info that I do.

In a 3-4 both OLB dont rush together unless it's a blitz. This is why having a sometimes pass rusher in the middle like Clay Matthews makes more sense than two pass rushing OLB. Now if you can get a good pass rushing 3-4DE, like Hicks, that's something you can use on every down for pressure. But if you want another LB to rush the passer in a 3-4 there is no need for it to be from the OLB rather than ILB position.

I dont think Smith is better in coverage. Edmunds excels in coverage, and I have seen some very impressive film with extremely fluid hips running with WRs.

Edmunds has more upside than Smith, and since this si the first year of a new staff, and we have a new QB developing, the win now / sign peaking free agents model doesnt fit. We are building a team for a window that probably opens next year. We will be competitive this year, and maybe even go 9-7. But we've lived through too many decades of the quick fix 9-7 team that ages before it gets 10 wins to do this again. Pace has the discipline and the time to draft for ceilings, and Edmunds looks like he could be a transformative player.

not to mention that he will eat up the middle of the field on 3rd down. It'd be like having the best Lovie cover 2 when we went to that look, but we wouldnt be predictably in it all the time. I think Edmunds is a real chess piece.