BearFan PHX

If Barkley is there, we will get trade down offers.

Yeah, either way we are going to revamp the WRs, and adding any of the top 10 non QBs would impact our team positively. You can never have enough pass rushers. Dominant Corners really help in the playoffs. Of course that's because they stop Qbs and WRs who are obviously equally important. It all really hinges on Halas Hall's evaluation of the talent in Free Agency and the Draft class. Luckily, (or was it plan?) we are in position to ride an ascending defense, and we have the QB already in place, and have therefore attracted offensive minded coaches who have the experience to evaluate WRs better than probably anyone else there.

That would be ideal, but I think in the current market prices are higher than we think. The NFL has seen such inflation in the cap, that the draft becomes even more valuable, and for example a QB who only played 13 games in college becomes someone to trade UP for. And we think, that guy hasnt done enough to warrant that. And we are totally right about what he has done, and how much risk there is. But like old men who havent been to the grocery store in 15 years, they cant believe how expensive everything is. And yes, even the QB that we identified correctly STILL has a price tag that high. He isnt being overrated by ability, his fair price is just insane compared to what we are used to. And Ridley and Sutton may be the same. Especially if our staff has a clear preference for one over the other. it's crazy out there. But yeah a trade down and still get Ridley or Sutton after they new coaches and pace have agreed that the talent is good, that'd be amazing. So I guess I'm saying, I dunno if they'll be there at 15.

totally. There are a lot of good players that will be available at 8 this year in positions that could really help us. I hope we get a trade down offer and bag one of them anyway.

when the best player available is that much of a stud you gotta consider it. Green Bay took Rogers with Favre in his prime. He wont be there at 8 tho. You gotta add Calvin Ridley to this list, because he is likely to be the pick. Or Courtland Sutton.

Normally, I would totally agree with the Reid-centric analysis. That's smart. But in this case, I think Helfrich and Nagy are building something new. Between them they will know a lot about wide receiver skill sets, and their impact on the scouting of WRs will be huge at Halas Hall. They are the WR experts. I think that we are going to basically overhaul the entire position. The only player I think we are sure to keep is White, and he will be slotted as competition for #5 at first. He may surprise us all, but no way they are counting on him at all. Theyll take a look is all. As for the rest of them, I dont think they have any inside track to be on the squad going into training camp ahead of any other free agent or incoming rookie. I really think that they will all be different next year. Theyre starting from scratch, just like we changed to the 3-4 and needed new DTs and OLBs that fit the scheme. I dont see Pace having any particular loyalty to any WR on the squad today either. He didnt wrap any of them up with long term deals. I think they all sit down together and start from scratch on the WRs.

You might want to add DB Derwin James to that list, just to be complete, but yes I think if we stay at 8, we will definitely be picking one of those players. This may be a better way to go about determining the first round pick and therefore which positions will go in the 2nd and both 4th round picks. And any of those guys would help our team a lot too.

I saw a lot of covered receivers, and balls that hit their hands and were dropped. Of course Trubisky has growing to do, but Im not being colorful when I say that we had one of the worst WR groups of the last 30 years in the NFL. That's just true. The best one, Inman, would be a #4 at best on most teams. I'm pretty sure this offensive staff sees this. Between the new HC and the spread offense OC, they will know WRs, and how to evaluate them. So we can let them be the judge of our disagreement. Im betting no more than 2 are left on opening day, and one of them will be White, unless he gets injured again in preseason. And he will be a #5 going into camp, just to see if he can achieve some of his potential, it surely wont be because of anything hes accomplished in the NFL. I would love for him to flourish, but it's a "prove it to me" situation at this point.

I saw a LOT of covered receivers and a lot of dropped balls. Continuity with poor performance is no benefit. Let's see what happens. I'll be surprised if more than 2 of them stick around to the final roster on opening day.

I dunno why people are so keen on bringing back WRs. We had one of the worst receiving groups in the history of professional football. If they determine they like someone, then fine, bring em back, maybe they feel that way about Inman, he could be like the #4 or something. But we really need new guys. They were terrible.

Amen.

I dont think White's injuries would stop anyone from drafting the next Randy Moss or Michael Irvin. Your second argument is much stronger tho. I have no idea what is available as far as talent is concerned, and if we pick at 8, I dont see us reaching for a WR who is ranked 15th. I think Pace will stay near to BPA. If the point of this game is to pick the position we'd take if talent was equal at all positions, I still think WR wold be the obvious choice. But if there is no talent on the board worthy of the pick, then of course that would change things. Im still saying WR for this game, but if you're right, the talent available will totally affect the pick.

even if they take a high ranking WR in Free Agency, theyll still look at WR hard in the first round. These guys are going to want a fresh new toy on offense, and we need like 3 new receivers. White will be #5, Inman will be #3 or #4, and there will be at least 2 new significant WR additions, maybe three.

This year we had perhaps the worst wide receiver group I have ever seen in the NFL. Maybe the 80s Bucs. We had nothing. And with a top 10 defense, these offensive coaches are going to want a new toy to play with. Trubisky needs his Rice/Irvin. I think the grades would have to work out very poorly for this not to happen. If, for example the staff only likes one WR and he is taken before our pick... I truly think there will be a good chance of a trade down this year, but I understand that's outside the rules of this exercise, so FA or not, WR in round 1.

Biggest need is WR. I expect first pick is WR. New Offensive Coach, OC from Oregon spread offense. If there is a WR that merits the pick, I think that's where it goes. If not, this year in particular is a likely year for a trade down, but I respect that you aren't doing that in this exercise. We also will be active in Free Agency for WRs too, but they will want their own guy too. second picks is BPA: OLB, CB, OL 2 x 4 are BPA at the two positions not taken in the 2nd.

Also, Pace makes decisions on players along with input from coaches. This is a pretty good group. Don't be surprised if our player acquisitions get better too. we should also be able to attract more top quality free agents - if there are any actually worth paying for, FA is so overinflated as a market - and lord knows we have the cap dollars because Pace didnt bet on the previous free agents with long terms deals. You cant blame a GM for not turning mediocre free agents into great ones. Some fill holes, others you are taking a risk on. What you CAN blame a GM for is tying up long term cap dollars on bad bets. Pace hasnt done that. Maybe he didnt do so badly in Free Agency after all. In other words, Pace has played this all correctly, and we are on our way.

I believe you that there are reports, but youd figure theyd hire the head coach first? Worst case scenario is they promote the DC from within to HC and Fangio goes to be DC.

I think the WCO traditionally requires big bodied power forward type receivers who can post up on linebackers

I think the fact that Nagy will be calling the play mitigates the impact of the spread offense on our team. As an earlier poster said, it may well be that Helfrich was willing to take an OC position in the NFL where he wouldnt be calling plays because his association with the spread has made him less attractive to NFL teams. So this will probably be a chance for him to showcase his ability with more expected plays rather than the Bears bending all the way to a spread offense. That said, Trubisky did play in a spread shotgun offense, and so it may well be that Nagy is interested in incorporating some of Helfrich's concepts in some situations. One assumes this is also good news for Tarik Cohen, as space deemphasizes his size, and puts emphasis on his speed. On the flip side, having hired Harry Hiestand, and having Jordan Howard and Tarik Cohen running so well bodes for some emphasis on the running game too, and along with Nagy's own pedigree is with Reid's more pass happy WCO, gives us a lot of experience in a lot of different directions. I expect this means he will incorporate all these philosophies. If he can blend them well it would give us very broad capabilities. We may see an offense that can play different kinds of games against different opponents, like the Patriots do. One thing you can see here for sure. These guys are going to want wide receivers, so expect Pace to be active in free agency and the draft at that position. That's not news of course, but it's even more obvious now with Helfrich on board. I wonder what his opinion will do for the scouting department as far as identifying receivers and breaking down their various skill sets. Probably very good things. That goes for OL and Heistand as well. He probably gets a draft pick on OL in the first three picks we make. All the more reason to trade down if the blue chip WR isnt there at 8. Course with the expected QB feeding frenzy, that stud WR might be right there for us when we need him too.

Gorilla Man! hahaha great!

totally. you gotta figure if there is any chance Fangio is staying, that those conversations are happening today.

all excellent analysis AZ54.

If one does its a tremendous risk if the other one stays. If they dont win the Super Bowl, then people will say it was the other one, the one that retired that was the real key. Of course it was both of them, but you know how meathead sports fans talk.

Don't overlook Pete Carmichael Jr. Saints OC. Pace will know him well. New Orleans' offense has been very good under his direction. I think it's Carmichael or McDaniels and DeFillippi is the wild card.

exactly, and why it's wrong to judge Pace when these FA stop gap players dont turn into longterm starters. They were never meant to. They just fill holes while the roster fills with draftees.