BearFan PHX

so true. and while I have some early opinions, I dont see a clear answer. this is the hardest decision the Bears have had to make in decades.

OK! fair enough. Im just throwing available names out there. Looking at Detroit as a blueprint, I might be OK with Vrabel as HC, but we'd need the right OC. I tend to think we should have an offensive HC, but moving another nerdy Xs and Os guy up to HC is probably the wrong move. The guy has to be a leader at HC.

I think Ben Johnson is an offensive genius nerd, and doesnt have the alpha quality we need at HC. He is perfect as OC under Campbell, who is a meathead with all the testosterone you could ever want! I think you can add Mike McCarthy to the list too. If you want an offensive guy, I think Kingsbury has the most personal alpha energy. He's kind of an asshole, and thats just what we need. Also, I know brwn has a good chest, and as a former player he has a kind of Mike Tomlin energy, but if you look at his press conferences, he is constantly shifting his weight from one foot to the other and licking his lips non stop - both are signs of insecurity. Now hes new I agree, and he may well become an excellent head coach, but right now he does not have that confident leader of men that they say he does. At least not in front of the cameras. In my past life I was on the Letterman show about 30 times. Sometimes singing background vocals for artists, and sometimes being dumb characters. The first time I did it, I already was friends with the guys in the band from studio gigs, and the theater is pretty small, so I was feeling confident all day. The rehearsals went well, it didnt seem like a big deal. Then, when we did it for real, and the red light came on on the camera the first time, my hands felt like they were suddenly 10 sizes too large and my arms felt like they were attached wrong or something. It was VERY intimidating. I had no idea. After I did for a while it got easier. And eventually you get used to it. Maybe Brown will get used to it, and maybe he really is that confident leader. Its just right now, in early press conferences, he looks nervous as hell. I bet he will be a great head coaching candidate in a few years. But I dunno if he's really ready yet.

I think that's right. Maybe there are things Poles is good at, like drafting DBs, and things he is not so good at, like picking coaches? In general I don't think I'd necessarily have to fire Poles, he's done OK. But he sure has done a poor job with coaches. Hopefully Kevin Warren understands the alpha thing and they get the decision right. There's some luck to it too. But i sure wouldn't want Poles doing it solo at least. If they get the coach right, the rest will probably be OK, assuming he can pick some OL that are actually great. Well Im not hoping poles does poorly at all. I always want him to nail each thing he does. I just think he already screwed up so many coaching decisions that Im not really sure he understands how to make that decision. If he thought Eberflus was a leader, then he isn't reading energy very well. Kevin Warren may be a blowhard, and he may be over his head making actual football decisions, but for all his bluster, i think he understands alpha leadership so maybe he will fill in the missing piece that poles seems to lack? Anyway what I just said sounds so dysfuctional to even say out loud, it makes me want to fire Poles LOL

Well said. I understand what you say about maintaining your fandom. I just think that firing someone who is a 2 out of 10 is easy. But staying with someone who is a 6 is just as destructive. When someone shows you they are average, you move on from them, even if it isn't "fair" - of course you cant know who youre gonna get next time. They all look like 9s until you get to know them. So the point isn't that someone should be able to predict the future, but they need to be able to pull the trigger when greatness is not there. You dont have to wait for failure if you know what your goal is. Mediocrity is enough. So in that way of thinking, giving coaches extra years and hoping they will get better is foolish to my way of thinking. Coaches are grown men who should have lots of football experience already. They would be the best QBs int he NFL if they had the physical talent and youth along with their wisdom and experience. That's why you can tell with coaches pretty quick. Players are different. They get a few years to grow, and they get to make mistakes. If they keep making the SAME mistakes, then you know they are done. FOr example we kept Velus Jones way too long. Yes he had speed, but he wasnt a player. And he was DUMB. But giving Justin Fields a few years to develop made sense. There is no reason to pull the plug on a 22 year old who is new to the league. But after last year, it was obvious that he was making the same mistakes over and over again. And he was the same in Pittsburgh. The reason is he was no longer growing, this is WHO HE IS. Anyway this isnt about Justin, it's about how and when to judge people, and that the same window you give to players should not be extended to coaches. They aren't 21 years old. They are who they are. So on one hand, you talk about the chaos that comes with change, and that is real for sure. But if you know you have a 6 or worse, staying longer with them to hope they change is a bad gamble. The chaos is better than being trapped in the middle, because you can overcome chaos when the right guy leads, but youll never ride a broken horse to a Kentucky Derby victory.

we really have beaten a bunch of good teams, and then Flus gave it away. Our roster is good. We definitely need more in the trenches, and Im sure the offseason will address that. Hopefully, we will be a playoff team next year. Maybe even a contender.

LOL yeah well we are all frustrated, but I am still more optimistic about the Bears than I have been in many years. We just need to get the head coach right and then we should ascend and compete. I know some people are always positive about their team, and others are always negative, but i like to think that i am realistic, and just want to chase greatness. And I think most or all of us here are the same way.

Allen's been battling a heel injury too all year. Since his game is cutting and not speed, that makes it really hard on him. i think he's got a role on this team, but i also think you have to think about replacing him next year. He may have one more year left in him, but youll want someone with those possession type skills in the pipeline at least. A Tom Waddle type who gets open on short routes on 3rd down and makes tough catches to move the chains, even if he doesnt threaten the deep part of the defense.

Totally agree that we should be a coveted destination. I just hope we are willing to choose the right guy if he is a bit rough or not an HR dream. We have to stop the endless supply of palatable meek muppets. We need leaders. Sometimes leaders get angry. Sometimes they actually say when things are going poorly. Sometimes that helps! If Poles makes a good pick and stays, so be it. I dont hate the guy. Hes done some good things and some not so good things. I just want to be sure we get this head coach right. I read an article today that said that poles wanted to fire Flus as early as the Patriots game. Apparently McCaskey wouldnt let him. So the McCaskeys still cast a large shadow over this organization. But WHY did Poles keep Flus after last year? It was obvious that he had all the same flaws that he showed again this year. it makes it harder to trust Poles will get it right. But maybe with some help he will - getting the next coach right is all that really matters.

Nothing personal meant by this: I just think you're too forgiving if people are already part of the team. And thats your fan thing, so I respect it from that perspective. But i think building a real winner that bullies other teams on the field means being tough and harsh in evaluations as well. If someones doing OK, thats good for regular life, but it doesnt win championships. I want greatness. And the fact that i think it is possible is my version of optimism. I believe in the Bears future, but not everyone currently part of the organization. I also think you have to look at long term trends and what you learn about players and coaches. I dont agree with you when you say if someone does something good the next 4 or 5 weeks that they save themselves, if they already have years on tape of subpar performance. The games come down to the last minute, but these kind of decisions really shouldn't. I dont really give up on anyone right away. I didnt blame Flus for year #1. I didnt blame Fields at first. Rookie players need time to grow. And if they make lots of different mistakes, that's easier to ride with. But when they make the same mistakes over and over, then that's who they are. Justin is a good example. Justin Fields is a hell of an athlete. He's probably in the top 40 QBs in the world. I recognize that he is immensely talented. But I want to be the #1 team in the NFL. So I'll move on from a guy who is really damned good, but not good enough to win superbowls. And let's face it - there are probably less than 10 Qbs in the world that can do that. And none are available. So you draft, and try and when you know he isnt that guy, you move on. Not because he doesnt have positive aspects, but because if your goal is truly multiple superbowl victories, then the 15th best guy isnt enough. That's why I move off of guys sooner than you do. I dont need to think they are terrible, just to know they arent going to be top 5. ANd you know that sooner than you know if they are never going to be top 20.

We've had such inept coaching, we have to be careful we don't fall in love with simple competency. Based on small sample size, Thomas Brown has looked competent for sure. He is an obvious upgrade in every way. But I want us to do a comprehensive coaching search and make sure we get the best option from everyone that's out there and get the absolute best coach (and staff) for this team. We've done too many internal arranged marriages, like keeping Morgan as OL coach and run game coordinator. Let's get the best coach we can, and let that guy pick his staff without pressure to keep anyone we currently have. If it turns out that for example, Hoke is the best DB coach out there for us, then great, let's keep him, but not out of loyalty, but simply because he is the best option.

it's a pink picture with hearts that says "Afraid of what could go wrong? Start being excited about what can go right!" basically it's an enticement to be a fanboy and not criticize anything, to promote from within and not have any accountability. It assumes that if someone wants to fire the people who are doing their jobs poorly, that theyre a hater, instead of an optimist that believes that things could get better with some changes. Personally I think we have the best QB we've ever had, and the roster has a lot of talent on it. I want a new better coaching staff, and a GM that I can trust to get that decision right. I have optimism that we could find those guys.

yeah, especially for a team that acts like a corporation worshipping HR, they sure dont actually know how to organize anything do they? This whole things feels like a home spun bake sale. I wish we had a competitive owner with some vision. I do think if we get the head coach right, we can win with this structure, but it isnt the best for sure. Can it pick the right head coach?

Belichick is too old and needs full control - not that he wouldn't be better than what we have, but he wasn't so great the past few years. Belichick was a genius, but he's too old now I think.

dont forget, the defense bailed him out a lot, and we were always trying to out trick the opponent. Waldron did that too. EVeryone in the NFL is smart, and theyve seen pretty much everything before. The trick is talent, execution and discipline. You want a coach who scouts good matchups and takes advantage of them - someone who sees what the other guy is doing and knows when to counter off of it - a master rock, paper scissors player. Nagy, like Waldron, never had any rhythm to counter off of. We didnt have an offensive identity - something we could do even if you tried to stop us - something to make the defense over commit so we could catch them with a counter. Ive always believed good offensive play calling doesnt mean being unpredictable - it means beaing mostly predictable with things that succeed anyway even if the defense knows its coming, and then a counter off of that at the right moment. For example, establish the run, pound the ball behind a great guard or tackle, until the defense has to bring an 8th guy into the box and then punish them over the top. That's one example of how to do it, although in the modern age a short passing game can do that too. But the festival of bubble screens was really frustrating as you remember, and once the league got a book on us, it wasnt working at all.

dude it is SO frustrating. I truly want to believe that if we get the right coaching staff, and fill a few holes, that were headed to top 5 territory. The hardest thing to find is the QB, and we have him. We also have good talent in the defensive back 7. We need help in the trenches on both sides, and as Allen ages out, we'll need another WR. We probably need another DB for Stevenson. Or maybe the new coaching staff will rejuvenate him. But i totally agree, we are not that far from being a tough team to beat. It all hinges now on getting the right coaches, and protection for Williams up front. And a good OL will help the running game too of course. I truly hope this can work, and we dont need to wait for the McCaskeys to sell. If they get in the way of bringing in the right HC, and opt instead for another HR friendly muppet it will be a disaster.

Im just sayin, if Im a hater, then youre definitely a fanboy. Also I am aware that he could have been a good DC and a terrible HC. Of course that is possible. But I think the performance of our D, such as it is, is the players, and I credit Poles for that. (see, not a Poles hater ) I suspect we will see no drop off in Defensive play, and that will prove that Flus didnt add anything on that side of the ball either. And to reiterate, my point in saying all of this is to say that anyone who defended Eberflus on the basis of what he added on the defensive side of the ball was wrong. And i dont mean fans like us, I am speaking about WHY Poles kept him? I think Poles has done some good things in drafting players, but he has also been consistently terrible in picking coaches. Not just Flus, but the coordinators too. I dont want him picking the next head coach. Thats really my main point. Anyway, if the defense continues to play at the same level going forward, or better, then Flus didnt add anything there. Thats just logic too?

I like seeing the Lions do well too. I like good teams, and the Lions look like a great blue collar team. I wish it was us.

LOL that is funny!

because Im not all about sunshine and rainbows, and I think it's important to see where things were bad and whose fault that was so we can learn and grow. I dont like participation trophies, and I dont like excuses. If Poles kept a guy that actually didnt add anything to the defense, and all this time it was the roster, then we know Poles picks defensive backfield players well, but not coaches for example. Im not hating on Eberflus. Im saying i dont think he had as positive effect on the D as you do. Its not to belittle the guy, but to understand we kept a guy that gave us nothing, and to use that information when we remember who wanted to keep Flus, and who should pick the next coach. This is about the difference between being a fanboy and accountability. I wanna know who is good and who is bad and who to replace so we can be great.

amen

that is true of everything posted on this site, isnt it? Im not thinking that the Bears should call me on the phone, but i do think they have made a bunch of mistakes, and a lot of us here have seen them coming. For me, Poles should not be the one making the decision on the new HC. This doesnt make sense to me. Everyone is saying hes a candidate for GM that other teams are looking at, and we should know him well enough now to know what we think of him internally? Also, youd have to know what Cunningham has been saying about these decisions all along. We dont, but Warren does. Maybe Warren already knows enough to know that my hunch is wrong. if they go to Cunningham then they could do that at any time, before the coaching heats up - plus no doubt Cunningham is already involved in the internal coaching search, so he has as much info as Poles right now. I agree I want a GM making that decision. But if you get someone wh has run a modern offense, and has leadership skills and alpha energy it's not THAT hard to do. I can make you a list of guys that dont have that energy and never should have been hired: Trestman, Nagy, Eberflus - I knew the moment I saw them speak they didnt have that thing that for example Dan Campbell has just dripping out of him. Campbell may not have Xs and Os like some genius nerds, but he has that alpha thing for DAYS.

it is a broken measuring stick with NO informational value. PFF has been SO wrong over the years - especially on OL. I agree with you about B Jones being a fine swing tackle for sure.

We do need more than a couple players, so I get you, but Jones gets beaten ont he bull rush way too often. Its not a question of being beatn inside or outside, where putting a player to help will fix it, the D linemen just push him back into the pocket. He just doesnt have the strength or technique to compete with that and the NFL knows it now. THey all see it on film. They save it for the right moment. This is why right at the end of the game suddenly Caleb is being sacked more. A lot of times that pressure comes over Jones in a bull rush.