BearFan PHX

Imagine how much further along wed be if we had fired Nagy last year - and maybe even Pace...

good point - you dont win with trickery alone - at some point you just have to block the person in front of you. and when Pros do that, they average 3 yards a carry. You work to get that to 4 or 5, but any professional team ought to be able to get 3, and we dont.

True. The one good thing that Pace has done is to put our defense into a Parcells mode, with Parcells tree guys. At the very least that means if you bring in another Parcells guy, you dont need to redo your defensive tackles etc. As for the offense, I think Nagy put a premium on light mobile offensive lineman - they can pull and do all the fancy T formation stuff he likes, but at what cost? They cant open a hole, they dont hold pass blocks, and apparently they dont even know who their assignment is. We've had two of the best OL coaches in the game and Charles Leno still doesnt know who to hit. And therefore Pace doesnt know who to draft, or Nagy is hamstringing his choices. Bring in the next guy but make him also a Parcells tree guy, and we will be OK. Coach or Coach AND GM, as long as they play a 3-4 and have the Parcells philosophies in players, we can keep some of the cultural gains.

The offensive line is a fire-able offense for Pace, but what we cant know is how much Nagy had sway over these decisions. You see how Pace did on Defense, and you wonder if Pace was serving his head offensive coach's offensive desires, or whether he is a meathead too.

yup - thats the usual plan.

for sure. You never force a GM to keep a coach. I suppose you might have a deal where the new GM keeps the coach for ONE YEAR while they take the time to find the replacement. That certainly does happen with scouting departments, but any new GM hire has to know he has the right to hire his coach.

Im 50/50 on firing Pace, but you make a lot of good points.

I am 100% on firing Nagy, I am 50/50 on Pace, because I think Pace was trying to get the kind of players that Nagy wants. It may be that Nagy wants fast mobile offensive linemen, and they just dont get the job done unless they are higher picks. I think that Nagy has less to do with the defense, and Pace has been pretty good on that side of the ball. I can see the argument either way on Pace, I wont cry if he is fired, I wont cry if he is kept. But Nagy HAS to go.

If you cut Leno, you gain 6 million in projected cap space - even more if you do it as a June 1st cut and spread the hit over 2 years. Here's a great breakdown of the options. https://overthecap.com/calculator/chicago-bears/

so someone else needs to call the plays. someone else needs to do the clock management. someone else needs to instill discipline so we dont have as many penalties, and people know their assignments. So what does this guy DO that's helpful? Fire Nagy.

yeah, but Im saying we could have known coming into the offseason, that we needed to draft a QB, so we are at least one year behind now as a result.

Nagy & OL, and if you want to make the argument that this is on Pace, fine, fire him too. First question for a new GM and/or coach hire - do you believe you can resurrect Leno? If they say yes, pass on them.

It was around this time last year that I said, fire Nagy, and give another coach a chance to see if Trubisky can play, and/or Pagano can be head coach. I said that if we did that, we'd know going into the offseason whether we needed to draft a QB with our first pick. I said if we didnt do this, we'd end up a year behind, and have one year less of the defensive window.

good point, and then you listen to your coaches. I hadnt thought of that angle.

right. trading down is always a good idea, unless someone great falls. Now theres a reason people fall, and some GMs avoid those players, and other GMs pounce on them or trade up to get them. And that's why we havent been trading down. Now are there times good players fall because of their position, and the way the draft board goes? Sure. But more often than not, a falling good player has some GMs that doubt them. All the more reason that trading down is usually a good move. Of ocurse trading down means someone else wants to trade up, so theres another GM that wants to grab a player by moving up. But Belichick moves down a lot more than he moves up.

watch the OL be no worse than its been. thats how you KNOW Pace screwed this up.

I dunno, I mean Leno was a 7th rounder, and hes been... oh... yeah... I see your point

perfectly said and reasoned

WELL SAID

I wanted Nagy fired last year, mid year. My biggest question is whether to can Pace and get a new GM and let him make the hire or to give Pace another shot. Im on the fence.

hahaha I have a NAGYing feeling this is what it actually says Does anyone else think Nagy always loses at rock paper scissors too?

For what it's worth, the line doesn't exactly represent what outcome the oddsmakers think will happen, but instead what outcome the oddsmakers think the majority of people BETTING think will happen. They dont aim to predict the outcome of the game, but to predict what line will draw even money to both sides, so that no matter who wins, they win. For example, you can often win by taking the points against the Packers, or in Brady days, the Patriots. This is because their fans are so blinded that they over estimate the amount by which their team will win. So even if the oddsmakers KNOW this, they would rather get even money on each side of the bet so there is no risk. So the disrespect to the Bears comes not from the oddsmakers, but from the betting public. The oddsmakers just reflect their knowledge of this to keep the money even.

YES. I have been saying this since last year. He is atrocious. I even bet Stinger that they'd replace him. I lost. I was (and remain) shocked that they havent. What the hell is he doing out there? It's one thing to get beat, it's another to usually be blocking the wrong guy AND getting beat. What is the upside?!

I have seen them using Mack to clear out lanes for other players a lot this year too. Damn smart of Pagano, and ego-less of Mack. It makes it really hard for opposing offenses to know what to do about Mack, if half the time going after him actually hurts you somewhere else. And I dont just mean because resources arent available, but scheme-wise, Pagano has him moving laterally like a road grader, and not only occupying the two guys assigned to him, but taking out a third guy who is trying to block someone else. It's one thing to use two guys to stop Mack from getting into the backfield and to the QB, but another to stop him fro also moving laterally to take out a 3rd blocker. Awesome.

Well at least he has help next to him in Leno. Oh. Shit. yeah...