BearFan PHX

LOL I hate this!

Armstrong is a big part of this mess for sure. But Poles' butt is on the line so hopefully he goes beyond that kind of insider loyalty and makes the best possible choice. And that assumes Poles isnt getting fired. I wouldnt necessarily mind replacing him with ian Cunningham based on the little bit of draft room footage I saw. Its too little to be sure, but it looked like Cunningham might be Poles' handler in a way. But yeah, we need a real coach. I dont think Gruden would be OK for this team. I recall the email was something kinda racist. Thats a good way to lose the locker room right away. But I do like Gruden's intensity, so we are on the same page. I like strong coaches, and yellers are ok with me, but Bill Belichick was able to instill fear with a whisper too. So he didnt yell, but he was definitely intense and intimidating. Matt Eberflus is not intimidating at all. And that leads me to... YES. It's freakin' football, not a knitting circle. These modern, corporate, HR approved coaches may be really great neighbors, but it's not what makes a football team win. I can only hope that Kevin Warren is a buffer to the McCaskeys and that he sees this the same way. That we need a tough coach. I also wonder if an intense black coach might be more palatable to the McCaskeys - or harder to reject to Warren. Like you can say "Harbaugh is too much of a personality" but that might be harder for the MCaskeys to say or think, given that they seem interested in DEI and stuff like that. Maybe we can get a Herm Edwards type in here. I'd be all for it. I don't care what color someone is or how it's done but if we can get a disciplinarian in here and the team buys in, I'm for it. On that note, there is a lot of talk that Thomas Brown was being groomed through the ranks as a someday head coach. I remember when we added him in his smaller role that the talk about him was that he would be an excellent head coach some day, but that he was being groomed and learning. Anyway, I heard him speaking on some clip and i gotta say his energy is awesome. I am not saying hes ready to be a head coach or will even be a good OC. I want us to find the best one, and I know next to nothing about him. But I can say that I like his alpha-ness a lot. Maybe that will help some this year. But yeah, let's get an old time football coach in here, and bring back that edge. I want our team to be bullies. Between the whistles of course.

Everyone doesnt keep getting better. Poles is not now some sort of coach hiring genius just because he was terrible at it last time. Hopefully it doesnt take a genius to just pick Johnson, Kingsbury or Kubiak etc. Im not saying I predict that Poles will blow the pick, just that we have to get it right, and keeping Eberflus because Thomas has shown promise as OC is not the way to go.

You can interview Thomas Brown for the job in the offseason if you want, but they cannot give him ANY extra credit points for being friends, or already familiar with Caleb or ANYTHING. You ask yourself, right now, who is better. And when you bring in a new Head Coach you absolutely do NOT push Brown on them. You let them decide who they want. Or else the whole thing is a joke doomed to fail. If Kliff Kingsbury wants to be the HC and offensive playcaller, and WANTS Brown to be his Nagy, then fine. But not as a favor to Poles. Not because the Bears want it. ONLY because Kingsbury thinks hes the best option out there.

This is my fear. he couldnt be worse than Waldron. So he will be better. And everyone will think "oh good we can build on this" and we will miss out on a stellar candidate who isnt available until in the offseason because he is actually doing GOOD things on an NFL team right now. When I was 5, I was a very poor basketball player. By 13, I was mediocre compared to the kids on my block. That trend line, if followed would have made me Michael Jordan by senior year of college. My 13 year old self was SO much better than my 5 year old self. I mean like a LOT better, especially by percentage. That does not mean that any NBA team would even briefly consider me as a player no less a championship winning player. Literally anyone who played high school basketball would be better. ANYONE. Saving the little pieces that aren't that bad from the last iteration is the disease that's brought us here. The arranged marriages. Oh we ran OK last year, so lets force Waldron to keep Morgan. Etc. Or why did we even choose Waldron?! We need to find a real leader. A Ben Johnson or a Kliff Kingsbury or someone of that stature. And we need to let them pick ALL their underlings. They need to bring in their vision, not have to massage the McCaskeys pocketbook and ego along the way. My fear is we beat GB and the Vikings once each, and keep Flus, because Thomas Brown in the new savior. Please no. No no no. Go get a real high value prospect, and then left him do his freakin job.

Like I thought, Thomas Brown was promoted within to be new OC. We'll see if it makes a difference. Also, Stinger, can you share a link to the source that says they gave Williams too much independence?

theyll probably start off with something lame like Waldron is still OC,and makes the gameplan, but Thomas Brown is gonna do the in-game play calling. Like thats gonna make any freakin difference.

yeah, the record isnt really what matters this year - its how we look doing it. and it aint pretty right now.

Hes a rookie with a playcaller who doesnt help him and an OL that has him running for his life. And no matter the reason his development is being stunted so hes not good enough (yet) either. I also had high hopes for the season. I was a little under you at 9 or 10 wins, but it wasnt silly to think that was achievable. The coaching has been horrible.

I agree with all of this. I even agree with "As talented as he is, he is also lost in his emotions and pouty on the sidelines. " - Im not sure it is a bad sign for the future since he obviously cares and is competitive, unlike, say, Jay Cutler's response to adversity. And the chaos he is reacting to is not all of his own making as well. But youre not wrong that Caleb has to play better too, and he is not at all happy right now. But some of this should rightly come on Caleb. Im not giving up on him at all, I still think he is the bright future of our franchise. But everything has to get better on this team, and that includes Caleb.

Yeah I always enjoy watching good teams no matter who they are each year. I can even admit that i thought Brett Favre and Aaron Rogers were great QBs, and I enjoyed watching them as well. But in my heart I am only a Bears fan. To me it's like a long story, and all this trash will just make the super bowl victory of the future (whenever that happens) all the better. In the meanwhile if we had gotten the coach right this offseason, we would probably be already on our way. All is not lost, but Eberflus, Waldron and Morgan suck, and by extension, you gotta question Poles.

Me too. I think we will see some decent games yet this year, and I hope our decision makers are not dumb enough to see it as a reason to keep the coaches. That has to already be clear in their minds no matter what happens next. I seriously dont care if they go on an improbable winning streak and get back into the divisional race. If Flus proves that he is not a 2 and is instead a 6 i dont care! I want a 9 or a 10. I want to try to find a 9 or a 10, and Ill consider keeping that guy if he turns out to be an 8. better than before is not the measure. Greatness is - giving your team an ongoing active edge in winning - not just managing not to step on your own dick 2 weeks in a row.

well he deserves to be gone. It makes sense to make the decision now that hes not back next year - but then you need to figure out what youre going to do between now and the offseason, and Im not sure firing Flus is the answer right now. But yeah, you have to be proceeding as if you will fire him and get a new coach next year. *IF* the new coach buys in on the defensive coaches we already have, then I would be for keeping them *BUT* no more arranged marriages. No pressures. The ehad coach is the head coach and should do whatever they want with their staff. Make it a complete vision for once. THere is nothing that is SO worth saving that is more important than a coach having their entire vision. now if the new coach realizes that we have some really good position coaches on defense and wants to keep them himself, then FINE GREAT but no more arranged marriages!!

I think part of why the frustration is so high is because expectations were high, and expectations were high because our roster is in better shape than it's been in decades. So while the current disaster is extra heartbreaking, it's because we are closer to being good than we've been. So maybe now isn't the time to find another team, but to hang on. This is the part of the story where Cinderella is cleaning the flue and can't go to the ball. This is the part that makes the ending so sweet. Im here for the ride!

right

Basically, it proves that Eberflus as a motivator is not a good head coach.

I think the most predictable next move, and maybe the wisest, is to fire Waldron. Flus bears a ton of responsibility for all of this and deserves to not be back next year, but i dont think firing him now does anything to really help. Firing Waldron sends a message, and hopefully lets this team get into some rhythm, even though i think we all know this season is very unlikely to end in a playoff appearance. I was listening to Flus with David Kaplan, and he said a few things that shed some light on all of this. First off he did his typical positives thing. And while I think it's tone deaf not to start with accountability and even show some emotion at losing at this point, he wasnt wrong. Every week we see individual offensive plays that work, and even small 5 minute windows of rhythm and then chaos again. I would say that the team has talent and Waldron and Morgan are the biggest culprits. I think it's fair to say that the offense isnt really Eberflus' fault. He's been a defensively oriented coach the whole time. His issues are situational, and failing to know how to help the offense. But the offense has failed under Waldron and Morgan, and Flus has not really been part of that - which is it's own criticism of Flus as well. Still, what happens if we bring in a new OC or promote someone and talent shows up and we split our games with the NFC north? Do we all say "wow maybe this can work?" and stay with Flus and the new offensive coaches? If the new coaches are like a 6 out of 10, does that mean we wouldnt find better under Ben Johnson or Kliff Kingsbury etc? I think we have to be careful of doing something now and then sticking with a 6 because its better than a 2. I think we need to find a 9 or a 10 and nothing less should do, even if a 7 doesnt stink. I want superbowls, not to be slightly better than average! So Id be careful and cynical about any improvements we might make with an in season move right now. The other things Flus said made it clear to me that by wednesday there would be some shakeup on the offensive side of the ball. Flus actually put a time limit on it, and not only admitted they were looking at it, but something about getting it right. So I think you can hang your hat on the idea that there will be changes. But here's my warning - the changes will almost certainly make a difference. THe offense may well improve, even win some games. But we shoult not fall in love with incremental change. We should still want Flus gone, and we should still want to pick our leaders fromt he full menu of available options during the offseason, and not now from the limited list.

I think our best (and only?) hope here is Kevin Warren. Im not saying I have any reason to have faith in him for this, just that he is heretofore unknown on these questions, other than a rumor that he was fighting with Poles last offseason, and wanted to get rid of Fus while Poles wanted to keep him. If Warren can be a buffer between ownership and these decisions AND if he sees things more the way we do, then maybe he can make a new kind of choice. I sure hope so, but I cant say its likely just because he is unknown.

your argument about not overreacting is a good one in general. the problem is that sticking with just anyone doesnt produce results either. they have to be good. Flus has proven over and over that he is not good. sticking with him will not make us better. also to your point about hindsight, a lot of us saw this last year so it wasnt hindsight then. it was 3 historical losses that were 97% to win in the last minutes. its endless situational errors with timeouts, going for it on 4th and 1 in the wrong places. its a lack of a fundamentally sound scheme through multiple coordinators. its a string of presnap penalties that reveal a lack of discipline. We could all see that. when you know what you have is substandard, thats not the time to double down for consistency. I think we need to hire based on successful characteristics instead of safe HR hires. Then we can ride with someone for a few years and see where it goes. But if hes making consistent repeated unforced errors, there is no reason to stay with that guy.

for sure

this this this. I suppose I could answer your first question with Jim Finks, but thats going back forty years. your point is still right on.

Here's a nightmare scenario. I think Caleb is still the guy we think hes gonna be, and our long term answer at QB. Tyson Bagent has some serious skills in running an offense, timing, reading defenses, getting the ball out fast. he just doesnt have superbowl winning arm talent all over him. If you sit Caleb, or he goes down with an injury for a few weeks, and Bagent steps in and makes the bad offense work and look good - even though we all know theres a ceiling on how far that could go - imagine the articles and discussions. This is a GIANT mess that was 100% foreseeable. I heard credible rumors that Warren and Poles were arguing over this, and Warren wanted Flus gone, and Poles was being loyal and made the decision to keep him. I would not be mad if Poles got fired and Cunningham took over. Im not sure which of them is the brains anyway. Watching Poles want to pull the trigger on trading up with the Giants for Odunze at pick #5, (costing us one of our two second rounders next year) and seeing Cunningham tell him to chill out and stick with the plan makes me really wonder. And Cunningham did it so skillfully like asking instead of telling "what do you really want here" etc - almost like Poles was a child? At least that day under all the pressure. Ive worried about this loyalty problem from Poles for a while too. We REALLY didnt need to be here, we could have hired another coach. Harbaugh or not, we could have hired Kingsbury or anyway. We probably could have hired Kingsbury as OC!

sounds like a decent possibility. I also agree, I don't really want to see Eberflus fired right now, unless the INTERIM HC is promoted from within. THe worst thing we could do is to get in bed with someone long term right now and miss out on all the good choices who currently have jobs on other teams. Eberflus deserves to be fired right now, Poles oughtta be at that decision point right now, but doing it right now is just more chaos than it is worth I think. Its a dangerous idea, but if i was Poles and I knew that Flus would be gone, I might think about leaking a rumor through three people to get back to Caleb that Flus is gone in a way that Caleb cant KNOW it, but can get the message anyway as a likely rumor or something. Its the sort of thing you do through a players manager if they HAD one.

Nate Davis is a pussy. He stole millions from us. And you know who's fault that is... Poles. Poles has done a lot of good things, but he's missed a lot too. Especially on Eberflus. I am not at all convinced we wouldn't be better off with Ian Cunningham. I wish I could find my post on Poles when he decided to stay with Eberflus in January. I predicted all of this. Not saying I said it WOULD happen, not claiming a crystal ball, but I said IF we were bad, then this would be what we thought of him and his decisions. Basically said winning this year would make 2022 and 2023 go away, and Claypool, Velus etc. But that if Eberflus presided over a collapse, people wouldnt just be calling for Fuls' head, but Poles' too. And bringing the losses last year into the pattern if not the whole thing, fair or not. And I think that's where we are now, or soon will be. Maybe the Bears will fire Waldron this week. Or add someone to Morgan's position. Something incremental like that.

If we get another HR department head coach I will become a Packers fan. OK no i wont. But damn.