BearFan PHX

good analysis - I think you've got it right.

If you can believe what she said, they would have taken Banks ahead of Loveland, and that makes me feel a little better about them. Loveland is a great pick, and Johnson will be able to show his stuff with Burden and Loveland with Odunze and Moore. That's a lot to cover. She's also really articulate about how we played ourselves on our trade downs, and I especially liked the discussion about Trapilo and what it means to the OL. I really like TTNL and Courtney because they seem to look at things the same way i do a lot. Not always! I think Campbell is not as good as they do. And the GMs in the league agree with them and not me lol But yeah, the way Johnson was rocking back and forth, he clearly is tickled to have Loveland. Even if he was 4th on our list, he's still well worth the #10 pcik, and is gonna make a huge difference for this team. Pray that however the LT situation works out, it will actually work. If there is no hole on the OL, this offense could go far.

OK there's just too much good information here. I'm just gonna share it. If you watch it, do yourself a favor and start at 48:00 (48 minutes in) to avoid all the nonsense, and whatever. Courtney talking about the Bears draft starts at 48 min

So Courtney Cronin tonight on TTNL saying a bunch of things with authority in her voice. SHe usually says things like "could be" etc but these things she was definitive about. She said she spoke to Jeff King after the first round pick had been taken, and he said the Bears had several players highly targeted for the #10 pick. She later said the Bears definitely wanted Campbell AND Banks, and after the Jaguar trade, the price was too high to go up for Jeanty. She said she didnt know who the Bears had been calling, but it definitely wasn't the Browns. So this is specific information, instead of rumor or opinion, and she has always been credible as far as I know. She doesnt make guesses presented as facts. Could someone have lied to her? For sure. But I believe this is what she heard, and it makes sense. So it seems the order was Jeanty, Campbell & Banks then Loveland. I'm still watching and she literally just said "If Banks had been there at #10 he would have been the pick" I can still see why Johnson was shaking with excitement. Like many of us here, maybe we felt like we should be disciplined and do the right thing, take the LT, but when a shiny toy at TE who's NFL comp happens to be Sam LaPorta is available, its exciting to be able to get that guy. I personally felt the same way about Jeanty. I knew we should take the LT if possible, but my irresponsible heart wanted to see Jeanty in a Bears uniform and think about Payton, Sayers and Willie Galimore, who is why my jersey here is 28. Should I add Neal Anderson to that list? A lot of people dont know about Willie the Wisp.

Good times for sure. If they are gonna move people around, this is a good year to do it. Roushar will hopefully have the right answers and help guys with their roles whatever they are. I like the idea of depth at OG, but Im not sure thats a 2nd round pick, so I expect Trapilo to be in the serious competition at one of the tackles, along with Wright, Jones and Amagadje. Hopefully we can find two good starters from those four, and have the right skills sets playing the LT and RT spots.

I think when a GM calls around to multiple teams, and doesn't make a deal with them, those other teams talk too, and the info gets out. And like you say, calling and pulling the trigger are two different things. From the coaching hire, we know Poles is the type to fully investigate all kinds of scenarios that wont actually happen. So he might be an active GM in calling to figure out prices for trades up and down all the time. To Stinger's point, even if he was doing the due diligence Im talking about it doesnt mean that he was serious about consummating the trade, and it doesn't mean it would have been a HB if he had traded anyway. But as sports fans, we can read tea leaves and make guesses. It certainly doesnt prove anything either way; that he is fine with or not fine with Swift. But we can guess.

I agree. And it is possible that with Roushar's tutoring, Braxton Jones will be good. The Saints had a guy, was it Armsted? Anyway he had similar issues to Jones' and Roushar made him an all-pro, so if that's what happens, I'll be thrilled of course. But then I wonder why the 2nd round OT pick? No doubt tho your point remains - whoever is playing LT is going to be better with Thuney next to him.

Youre right of course. And if that's the standard of evidence around here that's fine by me, but we have to play by it equally I think the fact that we traded down right after each HB got taken in front of us is pretty good evidence, but it's circumstantial I agree, not proof.

but we have heard that there WAS urgency? Poles was trying to trade up for Henderson, and traded down a couple times right after a HB got picked, indicating we were probably hoping for that HB? Swift is decent, but I dont think our HB room is as good as our WR room, our TE room or our DB room? So it's natural to want to elevate the weaker part of your roster? One thing that should be said is that now we are becoming a GOOD roster, so the weakest links arent necessarily terrible players, they just arent as good as the guys around them at other positions, so they become the focus of the next upgrade. Swfit would start for a bunch of teams in the NFL, but he is not a top 15 HB. That's not hating, it's what happens when your roster becomes excellent?

I totally share your optimism. Assuming we get LT right, and i do assume that we will one way or another, we should be a formidable offense. From QB to playcaller, with all those weapons to throw to, and what is currently a decent HB room, we should be a real problem to defend.

hmmm I dunno. The coach probably gets a "what do you think" before you take a player, but not before a trade back, I think? It's an interesting question. id love to know the actual answer.

Yeah, I was saying Loveland was better than Warren all offseason after watching them both. I didnt think we would pick either one, but Warren is not the threat that Loveland is. Warren is more like Kmet in style, while Loveland is like more like a big WR.

I dunno. My guess is that Johnson gives poles names he wants, and they make player evals and rankings and do scenarios, but on the day, i think Poles plays the board. And to some degree Cunningham. But I dont think that Johnson on the day has input to how much we offer to trade up or down for a player? Or when to make a pick and when to trade back? That should be Poles job in a normal organization?

for sure. and he is a big guy. I just think moving Wright was a plan B kind of idea, and taking Trapilo sort of implies that Wright is likely to move to LT.

lol well played

I dont think any therapist would agree with that. people are not just in an optimistic mood or a pessimistic mood and thats what makes them think what they think about football moves. People just have opinions. They arent all manifestations of some inner positive or negative worldview. You make it sound like the opinions are involuntary responses rather than reasoned ideas. Maybe some people are, but lots of people just think about the facts and try to reach conclusions without being driven by some inner theme.

suddenly it ALL makes sense now. Its part of the conspiracy to keep Shadeur Sanders out of the league LOL Velus Jones was a plant.

hahaha oooh thats a good one! Quite the conspiracy! And when the FBI came and got our defensive coordinator last year? Cunningham framed him because he was a big Poles supporter. FIelds knew, and had to be silenced. LOL Davis was so mad about it he decided not to give his all.

I agree with all of that. I guess Im less concerned with the HB itself, as wondering if Poles estimated poorly in picking his trade down targets. The players we DID get are all good picks. I'm happy with them. But Id trade anyone or most of the guys we got in the 4th and later (starting with the LBer) if it meant Ersery instead of Trapilo and it meant moving up a little in the 4th and adding Skatebo. No draft is perfect. Im just trying to do the post mortem to see how we did I guess. I think Poles may have gotten outmaneuvered a couple times.

those comeback videos are impressive for sure.

exactly. It's a tightrope walk. And he did do his due diligence in trying to trade up for Henderson apparently, and he didnt overpay which is also good. Here's a joke for Stinger (I'm making fun of myself): I want Cunningham fired! He is clearly holding Poles back from being more active in draft day trade ups! We could have had Ersery and KJ! Let Poles work! Fire Cunningham! LOL

unless the way the board fell, they were unable to get any of the HBs at various tiers. If that had been their plan and they failed, then it doesnt necessarily say what they think of Swift? I did hear they were trying to trade up for Henderson at one point but the price was too steep. Who knows? I just think based on my own feelings that Swift isn't up to the standard of the most of the parts of this roster. And i think that Johnson traded him in Detroit whn he was even younger than he is now. So my gut call is they would like to replace him. And the way things went, maybe that wont really completely be until next year? Hes not terrible. Hes a decent back. Certainly top 20. But not a gamechanger like the running game weve seen in Detroit under Johnson for example.

I think we intended to get one of the big name HBs in the draft, an failed. I read that Poles tried to trade UP for Henderson, but the price was too high. Then with the trade downs, I think they fell too deep, into areas where the value would be good, but that also exposes you because then the trade up to steal them in front of you isn't too expensive either. Take the same player in a slightly richer neighborhood, and the threat of trade ups is less, because the cost to do that is more? I dunno what the price for Henderson was, but if it was too much, then so be it. I dont want to overpay. But it seems they were a little too confident that there would be enough HBs around to get one at value while dropping down, and instead they kept going just in front of us, and now we are talking about a one year free agent. It's an example of the old haul argument. And it might turn out great. Burden, Trapilo, Turner might all be great for us, and maximized our draft value. But don't we all wish they'd managed to move up a little in the 4th to get Skatebo too instead of whoever we got in the 5ths and 6th etc?

That's why I think Poles may have not done as well on draft day by being too disciplined and staying with the value plan, and trading too low, and then not being able to recover. Or maybe that's the plan?

and not every person is stuck in one way of thinking or the other. Youre attempting to frame all our opinions as not free thinking, but predetermined by a generalized optimistic or pessimistic personality. i think thats not only logically WAY overreaching, but dismissive of our opinions as well. Why not just take each point as it comes without fitting it into some grand scheme saying it comes from a personality type instead of it just being someones opinion about that topic?