BearFan PHX

yes, so maybe we need to see Murray against a better DL? I hate garbage TDs too, but we have our second stringers in right now. I wonder what we will do on offense.

yeah it's rare to see him drop one like that. Are you guys watching Murray at LG at the snap? He looks really good.

Im saying Bill Murray is doing great out there, and Bates is coming back. Maybe Kiran will surprise us and displace Jones. Pryor is already doing better than Davis, even though he still has some issues. I dont see this as "they will work hard and get a little better" Im talking about better players in there. Anyway, watch Murray and see how he is. He's new in there. And he WILL get better with experience. I think Jenkins will not get resigned for any kind of real money.

Murray is doing a lot of good things. Watch him if you can. If he can be a good starter for us, that would add something unexpected to our troubled OL. Murray over Jenkins Pryor over Davis Bates over Shelton Kiran over Jones? Maybe there is hope this year. This game looks great because Caleb has "some" time. Imagine if we could give him a pocket consistently?

Dexter was an amazing find. I think our college player evaluation team is kicking ass. The pro personnel department has been more hit and miss. But then again, as my father always says every time I call him up gushing about some new free agent "there's a reason his original team didnt want him" LOL It's great to see how in control of the offense Caleb is becoming; changing plays at the line, going through his progressions, moving defenders etc, and he's not Justin Fields, but he is still pretty nifty with his feet, escaping pressure, picking up first downs. When our line is better, more games will look like this for us.

I suppose it's possible they are teaching new technique, but in general I agree with you. That's poor play on the part of the player.

film is always better than stats. Even good stats, and PFF does not have good player eval stats LOL

PFF is OK for next gen stats with inputs from regular stats like completions, yards etc. But when it comes to player eval, thats all on their eyes, and they were the same guys telling us that Charles Leno was one of the best LTs in the NFL. Im not even saying they are always wrong. Im saying they are random. It's not even the same person grading them. These just too much chaos in that system to have any kind of reliable output? If you want to know how Jones is doing, just watch the tape. Hes getting pushed around way too much, and Caleb is getting crowded in the pocket way too much.

Wright was always a puncher. It was maybe the best part of his game. I think you may be on to something regarding what they're being asked to do by coaches. Wright was great and ascending. Damn them for screwing this up.

Zach Martin is getting older (33), so he'd be a more short term option at OG, but he would definitely upgrade our OL for the next 2 years. I'd trade Herbert for him right now, but I wouldn't spend any draft picks higher than a 5th or something because of his age.

I agree - but it's not as easy as being cheap or not, it's more a matter of being disciplined so you dont end up with a guy who is better than what you have, but not ideal on a four year deal. The Bears used to do that all the time. They'd have a hole (or many of them) and theyd sign the best free agent that year who played that position. Let's say he was a 7/10 and he got on a 4 year deal. But now, for the next three years, if an 8 or a 9 comes along, you cant draft or sign them. So if Poles didn't think anyone was worth riding with as the long term solution, then he didnt sign them. Of course you cant wait for perfection in everything or you will never build a roster, but he's done pretty well I think is being disciplined and waiting for the draft and market to come to us. Plus, free agent OL are almost always overpaid due to the scarcity of available talent in free agency. it's a draft thing. I'll bet our 1st round pick goes to OL, maybe one of our seconds too.

I totally agree. And that doesnt mean we go 3-14 either. As we ascend we will win games too - thats gotta be part of the development. But i think next years roster will have many fewer holes. That said, we are far enough along that if we can get some play from the OL - maybe when Bates comes back, maybe if Kiran steps in somewhere. Maybe as Pryor continues to get better, or even as the coaches stop calling such aggressive schemes, and just ask guys to block the guy in front of them instead of running multiple gaps and then being asked to get across a defenders face and then turn him inside rather than just trapping him - maybe we will put together more complete games and win more reliably.

yes but if Daniels isnt fully capable of making reads, then in time, defensive coordinators will take things away from him and he wont be successful. Thats the point. I think Kurt Warner is an expert at NFL QBing. He just has his style. And i dont think it applies to a good critique of some QBs who are different than he was. Also, I like to learn. If someone says something I didnt know or agree with, and they show me on film, and I see it, then I change my opinion - so it isnt just an exercize in finding someone to reenforce what i already think.

exactly. they are experts in how they played QB, and they know a lot about football, but they (like all of us) cant get past their own world view. there is good info there, but they arent objective scientific experts, they are more like someone knowledgeable who has an opinion, but that opinion is wrapped up with how they think about the QB position, which is subjective.

a lot of non first round linemen sit for their rookie year and add weight in the weight room. Its not so weird to draft a guy for the next year. Hopefully he gets into the mix this year, and establishes himself as a starter, but if that happens next year in camp, thats OK. It feels to me like Poles has been working toward next year as the real window.

yeah but if you look at the game film, you see he locked onto his first read from the snap, and either threw it to them (they were open a lot) or ran. Stats, out of context, dont really tell the story of what happened. I dont think Daniels plays QB in the sense of running an entire offense.

and certainly not Aaron Rodgers

not that this proves anything, but here it is anyway

Yeah I wonder what's going on with Scott. Velus is fast, but hasnt done much else. Maybe this speed HB thing works out for him. I dunno. As for Amegadje, I think he was like a lot of mid round OL picks, who spend a red shirt year in the weight room and learning. I see him as competition for Braxton Jones. I think we figured Jones would hold it down until Kiran could take it from him (if he does). We knew he was injured as I recall, and i remember hearing that he would have been a late 1st round or early 2nd round pick if he was ready to go, so it's a good future move, but it does seem like we could use him now. Im very interested to see what happens when Ryan Bates is ready to get on the field too.

I know who would be on top. lol

sure, Herbert has value. That's why he also has trade value, but he has value to us too for sure. The question is who would be on the other side of the trade. If it was a good OL, Id do it in a heartbeat. If it's a 5th round pick, then better to keep him for now, and trade later when the market is awake, maybe the trade deadline, maybe during the offseason.

absolutely - this is exactly the progress we need to see. Its not about finding the long pass in single coverage every time. It's about moving the chains and operating in rhythm. Now that we are starting to beat the blitz, Caleb will start to see regular defenses, and that ought to help him grow in this way even more.

Kurt Warner is hit or miss with me. Sometimes I think he's making sense, sometimes the clip hes showing looks really different to my eyes. Thank you for clearing up my misunderstanding too - I didnt realize Warner had been saying that. It's crazy since i can see Caleb moving his head around. And to Warner: just because a play works, and the first read is open and CW goes there with the ball doesnt mean he isnt capable of reading on if the guy isnt open. I mean, that's what theyre supposed to do isnt it?

I think he meant Daniels is a one read QB, which i agree with! Kurt Warner is sometimes really off base I think. At times he's been negative about Williams, and I think time will prove Warner wrong. I like watching all the breakdown guys, Warner included, but there are times I see the same film and disagree with what he says about it. Not the routes and stuff, he's pretty solid with that, but who's open, what the QB should do. But it's OK everyone has their own point of view.

all it takes is ego. I surely hope youre right.