BearFan PHX

I have watched about 5 games against his toughest opponents. I watched the plays multiple times, checked the feet, checked the bend and anchor. Saw the "sack" against Georgia where he kept the pocket clean for 5 seconds, and then got his guy on the ground, and then the QB steps up like 3 seconds late into the picket and the guy on the ground gets his shoe. So PFF gives Banks a sack for that. it's not reality. I'll take 5 seconds of clean protection and then a pancake as a GOOD rep any day. Plus bansk is excellent at handing guys off and reading stunts and stuff. Seriously, you WANT this guy on your team! How am I having flashbacks of trying to convince you that Caleb Williams is a good QB prospect?! If Brugler thinks Banks plays too high, then he isn't worth listening to about anything. i don't care how many gold stars are next to his name, if he says that, then he's an idiot. In order for me to be wrong, Banks would have to have played high in the other games, but not at all in the games i watched. What are the odds of that? And if that's what happened, then Banks knows how to not play high, because he didnt, so it's not a problem. Honestly I think in one of the recent videos you linked he said CAMPBELL plays high and you got it twisted. I watched and he was talking about Campbell. Whatever the reason, Banks doesnt play high, and if someone says he does, then they don't know what they are talking about. It's not subjective. You can watch the film. Find me 5 snaps where he plays high. Seriously. This is getting ridiculous. The King of NFL media says 2+2 = 5, and Im just a common farmer, and Im like "wait, no thats not right" Doubling down on the expert factor just makes my point that experts dont know crap a lot of the time.

How does Kelvin Banks play too high? If you watch the tape he has great pad level. Campbell plays too high. Also, he did very well against top competition. I dont get it. It's like living in crazyland. PFF and Daniel Jeremiah. If thats what they think, then they shouldn't be analysts! Someone show me 5 snaps where Banks plays too high! And please dont get me wrong, this isn't Banks love from me. The reason I like Banks is because hes good. I didnt randomly pick him and then decide to defend him! The only reason I like him in the first place is his tape!

I'm saying if you KNOW you're getting Payton or Donald, you dont worry about the assets it took. Of course no one knows, so its a gamble, but if as a GM youre sure, then you dont let some 2nd or 3rd round picks stop you from trading up to grab the superstar.

well you know me, I want the LT, but if you think Jeanty (or any one player) is gonna be the next Walter Payton or Aaron Donald, its not wrong to trade up to get them. You can have a team full of pretty good players, but those superstars win superbowls and they are not easy to get.

numbers, narratives. watch the tape and see who can play.

True! And the coaching staff too. We now know that Flus was scared of the high character guys he had in the locker room - can you imagine if he had had to deal with Janel Carter during that period of time? But now we have a real team and a real roster and we can take on a few projects like Green and likely be successful.

more knocks on Campbell: He consistently plays too high, making him open to bull rishes at the NFL level He is terrible at hand fighting He gets beat to the inside too often

I like Banks as the pick, but I would be very happy if we got Graham or Jeanty too. I'd worry about LT, but i'd know we got some really good players. I dont like Warren at all though. In fact, I'd take Loveland over him. Warren in the 2nd round? Sure. Easily, but I dont think he is as good as he is being hyped.

Yeah I know. All I have is my eyes and my ears and whatever i can discern myself: my opinion. I dont know where these guys get their information, or maybe better said, how much not important information they let into their decision making process. I see what I see, and no one, no matter how well credentialed, can shake me from saying I saw what i saw. It's like if you see a UFO. Everyone can tell you it's impossible, and you didn't see it. But if you actually saw it, then no one can tell you you didn't. It's a bad example because i dont believe in UFOs, but if I saw one, no matter how much pressure i was under, I wouldnt ever break and say i didnt see it. No matter how many experts told me I didnt. I saw Banks and Campbell. It was easy to see. ANYONE could see it. I guess when you start adding in combine numbers, and narratives it gets harder to see. So i dont do that. I just saw them play. And anyone who thinks Campbell is better than Banks based on the film is crazy. That's the truth. Now should we take Banks or Golden, or Graham or Jeanty - those are difficult questions. I dont have an answer that's right to those. I just have my opinion. I cant see on film that Jeanty will help the team more than Banks (or vice versa) thats really complicated. Good people can debate that either way. But with Banks and Campbell playing the same position, apples to apples, it was clear and solid. Banks is better. It's like when I said JF would never be the man. After a certain amount of tape, it isnt a question anymore. It becomes, just a fact. It has nothing to do with my ego or anything like that. It's just i saw what i saw. You can see it too. Anyone can. I dont care what the pundits say. If they disagree theyre either stupid, lying or taking garbage data into the equation.

one way or another we should end up with some pretty good names with our first 2 round picks.

The film I saw wasnt close. Im not saying everyone doesnt have good and bad reps, but when you look at the style and technique, and not just whether they kept their guy blocked or not, then you see a clear difference. I do understand you desire for Jeanty. I feel like the disciplined thing to do is to take banks if hes there, but im not sure im right about that. if they take Jeanty, I will worry about LT, but I'll be over the moon for Chicago to have another star HB.

youre right of course. and once you get out of the first 10 or 20 picks, it gets a lot grayer and thats where the scouts earn their money. But looking at Banks and Campbell, it's hard to imagine what human bias would make someone think Campbell was better on film. On stats, on measurables, 40 yard dashes, and what other people said about them sure it can get confusing. But i truly think if all of us on this board, watch the film i did, we would all see it the same way. Banks glides, Campbell seems like clumsy chaos. Now regarding Jeanty, thats different. If the question is Banks (or whoever) vs Jeanty, thats not science I agree. It's apples and oranges, and multidimensional, and different people can have different ideas. Im not saying its obvious to take Banks over Jeanty! I couldnt possibly. Im saying taking Banks over Campbell, thats apples to apples.

I dont have an echo chamber, because I dont care what any of them say! I just look at the film, and make up my own mind. Maybe I'm wrong on my own, but it's not because of an echo chamber! When you (or anyone!) reads the writers, then the narratives start to pile up, and people find patterns, like faces in clouds. We cant help it. Its the nature of believing there are such things as draft experts, and that what they say is data. It isn't. Brugler (for example) doesnt know any more than the other experts do. And I can prove it: If you ask 10 chemistry experts a chemistry question, they will all give you the same correct answer. That is a strong indication that being a chemistry expert means you know about chemistry. This goes for many fields of study and expertise. BUT if you ask 10 top draft experts who the Bears will pick at 10, they will all disagree! Therefore, even if one is right, then you can say 9 out of 10 draft experts are wrong about any given question. Maybe even 10 out of 10. When all the experts disagree, that means being an expert doesn't mean anything. So their opinion is as good as anyone elses. And Im surprised at it frankly. When I look at film of Campbell and Banks it isnt even close for me. It just pops out. I feel like any random person if they watched the film I watched, and looked for the traits i listed a few posts earlier, or even just how smooth they look doing it, would see it too, as clear as day. It's really obvious. How these experts can possibly say Campbell is the better prospect is confounding. It's like saying 2+2=5 - to me it isn't murky, or "one guy is better at ______ and the other is better at ________" it's just so obvious. Banks is better than Campbell in every way. So the experts are reading too much, or theyre looking at 40 times or something. I haven't looked at Campbell's or Banks' combine numbers once. I dont care what the common single phrase about a player is "short arms" or "hasnt progressed" and we all know how deceiving stats can be. These arent data points, they're STORIES for an audience that wants to read them. In an example you'll agree with, look at Erik Lambert! In the past 2 weeks he has stories that claim we're definitely taking at least 15 different players, including Jeanty, Omarion Hampton and TreVayon Henderson at RB with pick 10! He's got CBs, DTs, all three OTs. 15 different answers and rumors. This isnt informative journalism - it's not even MEANT to be - its STORYTELLING. And being right isnt as important as being entertaining. Being provacative is more important than being right! We live in a world of sports writers, many of whom write, as if it were the truth, that Caleb had a really bad rookie year, I have to call BS. I dont know why theyre so stupid. I dont know what affects them so that presumably intelligent people start saying these things. It's kind of scary really. So far from reality. Makes you wonder about other experts in politics, or economics, or medicine or anything! But no matter how many experts say that Membou or Omarion Hampton are top notch football players, I can see the emperor is naked. He just is. Can they possibly develop in the NFL? Of course. Theyre kids. Who can say when the light might go on for a 23 year old and suddenly they get it? But we CAN value where they're at right now as a prospect, what traits they show, what they put on the film. and if you look past how may sacks they're deemed responsible for by PFF, and instead just look at how they do their blocking on film as an athlete; anchor, bend etc etc then the good ones are easy to see from the bad ones. I dont have a show or a way to get clicks on this. I'm just a Bears fan talking about what we should do. So stories aside, I can tell you factually that Banks is a lot better than Campbell or Membou as a LT prospect. And I can tell you that Banks has everything he needs to become a great NFL player. at LT The rest is just insane. Now, we CAN debate things like whether Jeanty is a better pick than Banks. That's not something you can see on tape. That's a much more complicated, because it's two different positions, etc. But player evals themselves at the top of the draft should be easy. If youre a top 10 pick, it should shine in an obvious way on the tape. And it does. He's not even "OT1 in a draft that is lacking in OTs" thats a narrative. Who the other OTs are doesnt change him as a prospect. He's just a singular person, and you can watch his tape and project him into the NFL based on his current level. Banks is a lot better than Campbell or Membou. It's not really an opinion. The film is the film.

I think a lot of this is an echo chamber too. Your sources tell you a point of view, and then they re-enforce it, until you (anyone not YOU) feel like its true because its confirmed, but the confirmation is really just the same echo chamber. After all the dust clears, dont sleep on Banks. i just hope he is still there when we get our pick.

and on draftbuzz he doesnt make it out of the 1st round now, usually going in the 20s. I think it's hard to know where these guys will go. And its hard to trust the experts on this too, because if being an expert made you right, then the experts would agree, and they dont.

I mostly look at these things: Pad Level Footwork = keeping a base under you as the rusher moves Back Bend = sinking the butt and pushing up to absorb energy Fluidity in the hips = getting reestablished as the angles change Raw Strength = country strong Hand Fighting Punching vs catching = rhythm. when you engage Intelligence = reading stunts, finding the right guy to block Speed in pulling and getting to the 2nd level, if necessary for the position or scheme Desire = play to the whistle or give up And then in doing all this, is it fluid or clumsy. Does it look under control or like chaos is about to erupt at any moment. Also to the idea of how they will pan out, no one can know that of course! All we can do is evaluate where they are right now. How a kid will be in 2 years with NFL coaching is hard to say, but what traits they have, and what problems they have should be apparent in the tape.

Im afraid youre right. I just think its funny that the machine has to go through so many iterations just to land on what the film said from the beginning. DDPhil likes Campbell too, has him as his #2 OT, I think he's got real problems. That's one I disagree on. If Banks is gone, we are free to look at any of the other options like DL or skill position after all. But i really think that Banks is the right choice for us if he falls to us.

youre right! I should have said a pressure. Caleb has great escapability, so a lot of times that Braxton got pushed back it wasnt a sack per se. I do know that on key downs Caleb didnt have as much time as I (or he!) would have liked. I should have said it like that.

The book is out on Braxton now - if you need a sack, you bull rush him. Teams were able to choose which down they wanted a sack on last year. Obviously you cant bull rush someone on every down, it gets predictable and you can scheme in help, but by the second half of the season, on critical downs, it was all bull rush.

exactly and hes only 20. Banks is going to be a plus player in the NFL, especially with a guy like Roushar to guide him - I just worry hell be gone before pick 10.

Draft Buzz has changed their rankings and now Banks is their #6 ranked player overall, OT1. In mock drafts on that site it is almost impossible to get Banks at 10 anymore. I think Banks is light years ahead of Braxton Jones right now, and has room to grow. I think Amagadje has a better chance to be our starter in 2 years than Jones does. And Banks is significantly better than each.

I generally agree, I just find the tape analysis so much better than anywhere else that I put up with it. I agree with him a lot, so when he rants it's less offensive i guess because i agree with the point even if the show is over the top.

Lots of good names there - they would give us better depth and make us more solid in lots of ways. I also think there is something to be said for those core 6 guys on your team who are superheroes. We wont be back here again any time soon (we hope) so we should probably grab an impact player here to be a superhero. And dammit thats a good argument for getting a dominant DT at 10.

he REALLY is. but I also think he's got about as good an eye for analysis as I see on the web. His reads on JF and Caleb were much better from my point of view, than Kurt Warner, and the others included. I do think JT OSullivan does a good job too. But Phil's are just as good, and often more insightful or educational that the youtube ones. Probably because Phil is a giant nerd, and the youtube pros are calibrating the level of detail to what people have the patience to watch. He is particularly good on OL, HB and QB breakdowns. But like with anyone, I dont always agree with him, he claims something, and the film is running, and you can see if you agree with him, or think he's calling it wrong. So I don't hear it like preaching, it's more like a guide to your own analysis. I also like how for draft evaluations, he will show you a complete half of a game, not cherry picked, and he will show you like 4 different opponents, especially the ones where they go up against other good players. And they will leave in and call out the bad reps too. No one is perfect. So it gives a fuller view of the players?

I think that's all fair. If someone thinks Jeanty is a better choice for example, I can't say they're wrong. All I can say is that Banks is a hell of a LT prospect, and the film doesn't agree with the weird media narratives I've been reading. I'm glad you watched it. You can see they really know what they're saying, and I've learned so much watching them over the years. And like i said, DDP has a huge ego and he is a total blowhard. When the tape is rolling, I love him, the rest of the time, it's like a WWE wrestler talking trash LOL And like you said, when you see him against the great pass rushers, you really get to see it. He also shut down Will Anderson when he was a freshman. But moslty, i just see his pad level, his intelligence, his desire, his excellent feet and hips. He looks really good to me, and at 20 years old, he can still put some weight on and get coached up to be even better. His ceiling is sky high I think, and his floor is capable. If we want a LT, he'd be my pick.