BearFan PHX

Oh go stuff yourself. I did not bring up your kid OR demean him. Thats self rightious fake bullshit. YOU brought him up and made a claim and I simply asked if that's what you were claiming. Dont pretend I'm attacking your family that is total bullshit. Why would you twist something around that much? Do you think that's you being the moral high ground? Really? Also, I told Pix that my opinion was that he was wrong. I prefaced it by saying I wasnt meaning to be a jerk, but he had misread Fields so maybe i was right. So dont make up lies to paint me as a demon. The common denominator here is that you are all so pissed that i was right about Fields and other things that youre ganging together to make me wrong somehow some way. Bullshit. But seriously how dare you imply that i said anything mean about your son or brought someones family into it. You want a common denominator? Its the ridiculous need to "get me"with made up claims. I said something positive about Caleb, not about any of you. You then all told me I was wrong, and I POLITELY and with facts rebutted it several times. THEN the "get over yourself" started etc. You are literally offended that I have an opinion and wont back off of it when a bunch of you disagree with me. I thought this was the place where disrespecting someones opinion was the worst thing ever. And finally I posted Hoge saying the SAME thing. So maybe I wasnt wrong. Huh. So you know what? You can all back off. I said something positive about Caleb, and a professional said the same thing the next day. I fielded all your criticisms politely and with facts, and then after enough personal stuff i returned serve. But dont you dare say i went after your family. Thats a dirty lie. Its a desperate attempt to defeat me somehow some way for your own egos. You claimed your son could put a football into a garbage can repeatedly from 30 yards away. So I asked if you really meant that literally. Is that disrespect? Is that me bringing your family into it? Seriously?! Caleb is accurate. Dont like it? Go cry about it jesus. YOu can all hate me as much as you like, but it doesnt make you right, and when youre constantly looking for a way to prove me wrong it makes you guys take ridicukous positions and then double down on them. "Oh PHX is SO mean. He wont let us beat him. Lets say he insulted my family! Lets say he lacks class." LOL guys, take a breath and realize who the people who beging the diesresepct each time are. it isnt me. Go re-read how many times you all told me I was silly to think I could see Calebs talent in videos of him throwing the football. Doesnt that sound silly to you yet? Uh oh, the Hoge said the same thing a day later. What now?! But insulting your family? Youve got to be crazy. I would NEVER do that.

Im just thinking this over. So the classy thing is to pretend that everyone has a good eye for evaluating QBs. If you say someone else doesnt, that classless. Where do I get my participation trophy?

yeah so do I. I simply said that I believe his opinion is wrong, because that's my opinion. But somehow calling me classless is classy, despite me having prefaced it with "I want to say this without being a jerk" boy is everyone SO sensitive, but IM the one thats paranoid LOL I am SO sick of fighting with everyone on this board. Deal with the fact that Fields sucks and I was right. It isnt my fault when you are wrong. You all tell me to be nicer and then its like one after another of you continually takes shots at me. So, OK, I will return fire then. But dont you dare say Im out of line, Im just going the speed of traffic. When I say something I see with my own eyes, that you didnt already read in some article, you call me out. Well guess what? I have eyes. I know good QB and bad QB play when I see it. Sorry if that sounds offensive to you. It's like seeing something that's green, and everyone says it's red, and I say "no it's green" and then i get a lot of "why dont you respect our opinion? youre so mean" Ok snowflakes, you think it's red. Good for you. But youre wrong. That's not because Im arrogant, it's because the freakin thing is green. it just IS. maybe youd like me better if you didnt have so many dumb opinions that you need to ego defend. Is that better? Classless? Love it? Keep the hate coming. WTF Caleb was super accurate. You need to dump on me for that? Thats DUMB. He is incredibly accurate. I can see it with my own eyes. Why does that bother everyone so much? It would only take a tiny bit of humility and introspection for many of you to realize that you've been the ones disrespectful to me and then projecting that on to me. I wont hold my breath tho. Keep in mind this latest skirmish began when I simply posted that I was impressed by Williams' accuracy. Then you all needed to tell me I didnt know what I was seeing, that I needed to "get over myself" etc - was I calling ANY of you out? No I was posting something positive about Williams. The stuff that was personal was all of you telling me I didnt know what I was talking about. Was that you all respecting my opinion? Arent you in fact the ones doing everything youre saying Im doing? Well Adam Hoge said the same thin on the score. So i guess Im not so dumb after all huh. Take a freaking look at yourselves. How often youre climbing on me after I say something about football, not about you. This all started with Fields. I was right. He sucks. Youre mad at the truth, not me. Im gonna continue to say what I see on the field. If that offends you, get a helmet or something. But if you need to get in my face about it while yelling how classy you are and what a jerk I am, take a moment to see who is making it personal first. its not me. Im talking about football. But if you need to be jerks, then do it. And dont cry when I return serve. It's your decision how to set the tone here not mine. But I can tell you Im about reached my limit and Im gonna come back in symmetry. A bully punches you in the face, then you punch back and the bully cries about how unfair you are. It's pathetic.

Ok you naysayers. Here's a quote from Adam Hoge on the score. "I'll give you an example from even individual drills today. They're just running go routes, over and over and over again. You see it in every NFL practice you've ever been to. But I don't know how often I've seen a ball forty yard down field in the same exact spot throw after throw after throw with like the same trajectory right in the same spot, all of them accurate, the only one that hit the ground was a drop by one of the rookie tryout tight ends. Usually they still - that one landed two yards out of bounds, this one was a little bit inside towards the hash, theyre not always accurate." If you want to disagree with me, go ahead. But as far as QB evaluation, I've been right every single time. If you find that arrogant, there's not much I can do to dissuade you all from it, but maybe in the future you'll just say you disagree, and not treat me like I'm SO dumb and off base, since I keep being right. Remember, this whole idea that after 15 years, suddenly I dont respect peoples right to an opinion was because i said Justin sucks and a lot of you were sure i was out of my mind. Well I was 100% right, so i wasnt being arrogant. You were being wrong and SO sure you were right that it felt like I was arrogant. Well, once again, you all told me that Caleb's accuracy in those simple warmups was common and I must not know what Im talking about, but then here comes Hoge saying the EXACT same thing. So, maybe you guys should respect my right to have an opinion, since I kind of know what Im talking about.

I dont think I need to get over myself to say that Williams was extra accurate. I was impressed. You werent. Cool.

In thinking more about these reactions i think i should add some more info. First off these are not game type throws. There is a lot of air under those balls. One hopes at full speed those throws would be a lot flatter and get there a lot faster. I thought that was obvious, but maybe I should say it. I'm not saying I see evidence of arm strength in these particular throws. I'm not saying they are hard throws to make. I'm just saying these three things. 1) Every throw looks the same from his body. Love the consistent body mechanics. 2) Every throw looks great coming off of his compact delivery - love the arm mechanics too. and I guess this was the controversial one 3) Every throw is dropping in exactly the same place. Each ball is identical in flight path. So it's the repeatability, mechanics and the clean accurate balls they produce that I'm commenting on. I wasnt saying they were hard throws or difficult throws to make, other than the increased accuracy. He is just very consistent in the way he throws, and consequently, the way the ball follows extremely similar paths. Anyone, including Bagent or anyone, can make those rainbow throws, but they wouldn't have them all drop in exactly the same place.

your eighteen year old son can drop a football into a garbage can from 30 yards away 20 out of 20 times? Caleb is a highly accurate QB. And you can see it in everything he throws.

Totally disagree. Different QBs have different levels of accuracy. Caleb's is excellent, as you can see from that drill. The ball is in the identical place each time. That's not common. I want to say this without being a jerk, but you also thought Fields was a good QB, so maybe you don't have that critical eye for judging QBs? I know you see the drama in the game, and when it's a big play that seems tougher than throwing a ball easily into a small garbage can 30 yard away. But while there are other factors at work in the big play - reading the defense, pocket awareness etc, the throw itself is the same. You can absolutely judge accuracy and mechanics on warm up throws like that. I've also been watching football a LONG time too, and I can see a difference.

the same is true of every drill and every throw. A 12 yard out is a 12 yard out in practice, at half speed, in high school and in the super bowl. Some guys drop the pass right into the bucket every time, but most guys have a wider area the ball falls into across many throws. Caleb was like a machine, it looked like a rerun each throw. Awesome.

hes still dropping the throws right into a small area repeatedly, no matter how fast the WRs are running, he's throwing to a spot.

I just went looking, and found this. It's just a couple drills, but you can watch how his footwork and timing is always the same and the ball drops right into the same location on the field every time. He is very accurate and repeatable. If he can make reads, he can definitely make the throw. We havent had that kind of technical consistency in the passer in a long time.

awesome! Was the minicamp practice online to see? Is there a link?

Yeah, Im saying that if the result of the new rule is similar to how kickoff returns used to be then fine, but *IF* it turns out to enable a lot of cheap TDs *THEN* I will be against it. For example if we had the old kickoff rule, but just moved the kick point back to the 20, and made the coverage team only be able to walk, then returners could "earn" TDs but it would ruin the game, and make that play too important in determining outcomes. I am not predicting this will be the outcome, Im just HOPING it wont be.

when the chaos is the result of a dominant player or performance, that would be great, but when it's just an unstable situation awarding unearned points, thats a problem to me. For example, would we like it if every sunday at 3pm, a lottery was held in NFL headquarters and the winning team got a free 14 points? So great kick returners are fantastic, but kick return rules that (maybe?) facilitate lucky touchdowns that come not from skill but just an unstable rule, then i think that corrupts the game. I love trick plays - the defense has to watch for everything - but if the new kickoff rule hampers the coverage teams, then Im not for it.

yeah I dont know either. Im saying I HOPE the new rule doesnt overshadow the rest of the game with easy points scored.

There is no such thing as a game without flukes and chaos - I think you misunderstood me. What Im saying is that I am not in favor of changing rules to create more chaos and flukes so that the chance of the inferior team winning increases from where its already been.

I totally disagree. Especially now that we are becoming one of the good teams who can win games without flukes and chaos.

all good points. I know DJ is invited to everything, my point has been more about interviews and such. I just hope everyone is feeling the love is all.

because if they play superior offense and defense, but a chaotic play like a kickoff determines the outcome with an effect out of proportion to the rest of the game, then there is more chaos in the outcome and it measures the quality of the teams less. I always felt the same about surprise onside kickoffs too. Punts and kickoffs as they were, are fine, they didnt disproportionately affect game outcomes. i wonder (but do NOT know!) whether this new arrangement will end in more kickoff returns for touchdowns than the previous form did, and if it does, then I think it corrupts the game.

I'm a little bit concerned that we keep hearing a lot about Caleb and Keenan Allen, and Rome Odunze, but not a lot is said about DJ Moore. Allen will probably only be on the team for a year or two, so eventually Moore is going to be very important to this team. I assume that Williams is savvy enough to keep DJ feeling love, but I'd like to hear Williams mention him in interviews the way he does the other two, and in the press in general. I sure hope DJ doesnt get disgruntled. Im sure in the end if he gets his targets he will be happy, but right now I just keep noticing he isnt as much of a part of the conversation.

sure, but the other (possible) side of the coin is some BS touchdowns that change the outcome of games, where the better team is edged out by a fluke kickoff.

that sounds about right. there are several DE options. might as well wait until at least one of them is willing to take a cheaper deal, or maybe until the one you really want is ready, or signs somewhere else. We got a whole bunch of OL in too. Between the Free Agents, the Draft and UDFA, there are a bunch of them. Maybe one will surprise us. If they all have potential, it's a lot of lottery tickets, maybe one will hit.

oh for sure, but since it's so new, people are going to find loopholes and techniques that we havent thought of yet. Im not really sure how I feel about it yet. If it feels normal, then OK, but if it turns into some weird new thing, Im gonna think its a bad idea.

I'll bet we see a lot of innovation on kickoff returns. the best technique probably hasnt even been thought of yet.

Agree. Im not sure who our punt returner is though, that's a possible role for Scott too. He did it for us, but muffed a couple so they took it from him. Maybe with another year's work he can do that.