BearFan PHX

it sounded like purposeful rejection of Dalton and Foles. I always thought Fields was somewhat Cutler-like in his press conferences. He always spoke softly and minimally, and kept his words inside his mouth. I wasnt sure if that was humility, or a lack of respect for the press. When I heard his interview a few months ago on a podcast with former players, his speech patterns were very different, and I felt like that was the real Justin, and he was more likeable then to me too. I think the looking at his phone thing wasn't a matter of him being distracted, but more disrespecting that Foles or Dalton had anything to teach him. I always thought he was somewhat sullen, but I chalked it up to me misreading him, and that just being his style. Once I heard him speak differently on the podcast, then i thought it wasn't his style, but keeping them at a distance. And that's not always bad either. Belichick was a master of that kind of sullen, low speak style in press conferences, and he was doing that purposefully and to good effect. So it's not always a social issue. I also think that Fields WAS focused on football. He apparently put in tons of work, watching film etc. I think at the end of it all, he just didnt see the field as a passer, and was probably defensive about that, since nothing was working. He seems like a nice kid, and I do wish him success. He's a hell of an open field runner. I've compared him to Hester many times before - another great open field runner who didn't really have a position (CB and WR both failed) on the football field other than as a returner. He may light it up as a returner for Pittsburgh, especially with the new rules, and his superior throwback ability that you dont usually see in returners. For whatever reason though, he didnt succeed as a passer, and didnt seem to want to take coaching. It might be that Nagy's staff's coaching was awful and was right to resist it too.

yes, if we are playing well, i do expect flex games later in the season for sure. I think Williams is going to be a media star in the league. Maybe not right away, but once he starts winning.

I read more that clarified, the Giants are the offseason version of Hard Knocks, the preseason version is yet to be decided. I would imagine the Bears would make a very attractive candidate, but we would like to avoid it if possible.

I dont know how much this goes on at the league headquarters, but all these things will make the Bears more likely to win the division. Not saying they will, just more likely. I also see where the Giants are this years Hard Knocks team, so theres that piece of good news too.

Well the Bears' schedule has been released, and we don't play ANY divisional games until the last 9 weeks of the season. That's kind of amazing, because it gives Williams time to grow before he fights for a playoff berth. I haven't looked at any other teams yet, but maybe the NFL is pushing divisional games later int he year on purpose so playoff hopes stay alive as long as possible for each team, or maybe the Bears just got lucky, or are being helped by the league (less likely!) Whatever it is, it's good news for us this year.

there is nothing better than having a QB who is worth that top salary. If that happens, we should be happy indeed! Also, maybe Williams will take a page from Tom Brady's plan and take less than he is worth so they can still afford a team around him, which results in more wins, and more SB wins means more $ in endorsements too?

I totally agree that he is brash and that doesnt fit well if your results are mediocre. The other side of the argument is that his floor is probably pretty high, so even if he doesn't end up great, he might still be pretty good. I dont want to see that though. Im here for a team that dominates, and it seems like the stars have aligned to give us a good shot at that. Go Bears!

they sure are. and people pay for what you might become too, because having that franchise QB is what the league is all about, and there arent really very many of them in the world. Certainly not enough for every team to have one. We sure got lucky with Lovie winning that last second TD, getting the first pick overall and the Poles masterfully turning that into a haul and lucking into the first pick this year and having Williams be there this year.

agree. no matter what happened with Justin, or what was his fault, it's on the coaches and GM to create and maintain the culture they need. If you cant control your players it means you are kind of scared of them, and that speaks to a lack of leadership ability in the coaches and GM. It is possible that they decided to cut Justin loose years ago, and just rode with him while they built the roster. But then the hugs, and the effusive praise wouldnt fit that narrative. So I guess they didnt think they could control him but still wanted to keep and develop him. Strange, because those are contradictory ideas. In any case, Williams seems to be all in on succeeding, and at least at this point seems to be taking coaching well.

well, theres the answer then.

Yeah, and that's part coaching and part the ability of the QB to operate the offense. But we have looked VERY unprepared on opening day too many times. We can lose the first game with a rookie QB, but wed better not look like we dont know whats going on (again).

oops! thanks. I thought he meant the first preseason game. My bad. Then yes, Caleb should start right from the first game i think. We have to allow him some leeway I think to make mistakes during the first half of the season, but we should see a lot of greatness too, and consistency should come pretty fast and build. But yeah, with this roster, I'd start him right away. ANd give him all the QB1 snaps in preseason and practice as a result too.

I saw the same story. And the story said even after Nagy was gone, Fields didn't want to take coaching from the other QBs. It's understandable, because the NFL is competitive, and you want to be QB1, but at the same time, you hope guys are wanting to get better any possible way. I also heard Courtney Cronin saying today that only Waldron and QB coach Kerry Joseph will be coaching Williams (I think she may have forgotten Thomas Brown) so he isnt hearing it from all angles, and can be set in the chain of command so he gets one consistent message. From that point of view, maybe the whole idea of backup QBs as mentors is a bad one, and Nagy and Getsy put Justin in a bad position?

usually when teams play the HOF game, they either dont play their starters at all, and use it as an opportunity to look at the bottom half of the 80 guys to see who theyre gonna cut, or sometimes in the first preseason game (HOF or no) the starters may play 1 series, 2 at the most. So I dont expect Williams to be out there much if at all. If they put the starters out there for a series, then I guess Caleb will be out there too, but if they dont play any starters, then Williams stays off the field of course without his OL. I don't see him playing a quarter of football for example, and ditto for all the starters.

I agree, and I personally dont know what that is, so Ill leave that to Poles and Waldron, and trust them to make the right decision. There is "common wisdom" going both ways so... But if I had to guess, I say they put Caleb in right away if they play any starters at all.

Im saying why the group got the idea that I am arrogant and obnoxious. You all knew me for 15 years, but this never came up. Then I was the only fish swimming upstream for a while on the Justin thing. And boy did i take a lot of abuse. Most of it centering on "wait until the offseason and youll see" well i did. I took it and took it and waited. and in the end i was right. And now there is a concerted effort to try to find me wrong on something. I said Caleb was extra accurate on those throws. And why wouldnt he be? Hes been touted as freakishly accurate. And he is! That wasnt personal, it wasnt fighting. In fact, I was shocked you didnt all agree. But whatever, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but my disagreeing with them telling me Im wrong is definitely allowed. And when people get frustrated and go after me, I return serve. it's really not that big a deal. If you dont want to fight with me, then dont start crap. Easy. P.S. actually now that i remember, it began when I said Leno sucked and people got all mad about that. Thats where the legend of me being such a bully began. Because I saw things from watching film (not the game, but OL FILM) that people werent yet reading in articles. So I was the arrogant know it all saying things you werent hearing anywhere else - an outlier - obviously wrong. Except Leno sucked. And Fields is a horrible passer (but legendary status runner int he open field), and Adam Hoge said he saw the same thing in Caleb that first day - so I was just early. And I was right too. So thats gotta count for something? For a while I was a player hater, now Im a Caleb lover apparently. Couldnt it just be that Im early seeing and saying things? If I get a few more right in a row, will you stop assuming Im wrong and saying BS just because you heard it from me first? I also said Fields should return kicks for the Steelers about a week before anyone said it in the press. Doesnt make me a genius, it just seems kind of obvious. Most of this is/was. Im usually just surprised when I say this stuff that you dont all agree. I have no idea why you dont. To me its right there to be seen.

No Ill tell you what i think he meant. I think people were saying they were just warm up throws, and they had a lot of air underneath them, so most QBs can make that throw - it's not like its a 40 yard pass on a frozen rope. I get that. Before this all devolved I even clarified what I meant, that they werent tough throws, he was just so smooth throwing them, and the result was freakishly repeatable. In other word accuracy. But they (and me too) all agree that these werent like trying to thread a ball into a small window between two defenders. And if his son plays WR, then Im sure he is athletic. I suspect he added him into the conversation not to claim he was an all pro QB, but to say, even a high school (Im assuming, maybe its college?) player who doesnt play QB can do this. And hes right. Any QB even at the high school level can make this throw. What I was noting was how incredibly consistent and accurate it was, which i dont think most QBs at any level can do to that level of accuracy. But people werent listening. And then when I wouldnt agree - when I simply kept my opinion, without being rude they kept on attacking as if the only polite thing to do would be for me to change MY mind. And when it got personal, I returned serve. And then the fireworks started. I think you all (or most of you) need to just let the anger go, and read what i write specifically, because i am always trying to talk ONLY about the subject at hand. When that subject becomes personal, then you can bet Im going to act in symmetry. Why wouldnt I?

bullshit. I did not attack your family. I do not "know what I meant" Let's examine this lie in excruciating detail so we can see exactly who is the liar here shall we? YOU SAID So you brought your son into this not me. Then I responded And that was all I said. You really think that's out of bounds? Really? And now to say sounds a little personal doesn't it? You SURE I'm the jerk here? SURE? I get that youre all sick of me because I was right about Fields and after all the fighting you just HATED that you lost. And now many of you seek to catch me on something so you can assuage your hurt egos. But that my friends is on YOU. In this case I posted a clip, took my time to do it so YOU guys could see it too. I figured i was being helpful a good community member. And I said that i was impressed with Calebs accuracy. That's what this is all about. Imagine. How awful I am. So no, I did not attack your family, and if you are doubling down that I did i think that reveals more about your anger and need to defeat me than it does about anything Ive said. Youre butthurt about something and think somehow I need to bow down. Aint gonna happen cupcake - but no your family is off limits - always has been and always will be. Admit you lied.

Oh go stuff yourself. I did not bring up your kid OR demean him. Thats self rightious fake bullshit. YOU brought him up and made a claim and I simply asked if that's what you were claiming. Dont pretend I'm attacking your family that is total bullshit. Why would you twist something around that much? Do you think that's you being the moral high ground? Really? Also, I told Pix that my opinion was that he was wrong. I prefaced it by saying I wasnt meaning to be a jerk, but he had misread Fields so maybe i was right. So dont make up lies to paint me as a demon. The common denominator here is that you are all so pissed that i was right about Fields and other things that youre ganging together to make me wrong somehow some way. Bullshit. But seriously how dare you imply that i said anything mean about your son or brought someones family into it. You want a common denominator? Its the ridiculous need to "get me"with made up claims. I said something positive about Caleb, not about any of you. You then all told me I was wrong, and I POLITELY and with facts rebutted it several times. THEN the "get over yourself" started etc. You are literally offended that I have an opinion and wont back off of it when a bunch of you disagree with me. I thought this was the place where disrespecting someones opinion was the worst thing ever. And finally I posted Hoge saying the SAME thing. So maybe I wasnt wrong. Huh. So you know what? You can all back off. I said something positive about Caleb, and a professional said the same thing the next day. I fielded all your criticisms politely and with facts, and then after enough personal stuff i returned serve. But dont you dare say i went after your family. Thats a dirty lie. Its a desperate attempt to defeat me somehow some way for your own egos. You claimed your son could put a football into a garbage can repeatedly from 30 yards away. So I asked if you really meant that literally. Is that disrespect? Is that me bringing your family into it? Seriously?! Caleb is accurate. Dont like it? Go cry about it jesus. YOu can all hate me as much as you like, but it doesnt make you right, and when youre constantly looking for a way to prove me wrong it makes you guys take ridicukous positions and then double down on them. "Oh PHX is SO mean. He wont let us beat him. Lets say he insulted my family! Lets say he lacks class." LOL guys, take a breath and realize who the people who beging the diesresepct each time are. it isnt me. Go re-read how many times you all told me I was silly to think I could see Calebs talent in videos of him throwing the football. Doesnt that sound silly to you yet? Uh oh, the Hoge said the same thing a day later. What now?! But insulting your family? Youve got to be crazy. I would NEVER do that.

Im just thinking this over. So the classy thing is to pretend that everyone has a good eye for evaluating QBs. If you say someone else doesnt, that classless. Where do I get my participation trophy?

yeah so do I. I simply said that I believe his opinion is wrong, because that's my opinion. But somehow calling me classless is classy, despite me having prefaced it with "I want to say this without being a jerk" boy is everyone SO sensitive, but IM the one thats paranoid LOL I am SO sick of fighting with everyone on this board. Deal with the fact that Fields sucks and I was right. It isnt my fault when you are wrong. You all tell me to be nicer and then its like one after another of you continually takes shots at me. So, OK, I will return fire then. But dont you dare say Im out of line, Im just going the speed of traffic. When I say something I see with my own eyes, that you didnt already read in some article, you call me out. Well guess what? I have eyes. I know good QB and bad QB play when I see it. Sorry if that sounds offensive to you. It's like seeing something that's green, and everyone says it's red, and I say "no it's green" and then i get a lot of "why dont you respect our opinion? youre so mean" Ok snowflakes, you think it's red. Good for you. But youre wrong. That's not because Im arrogant, it's because the freakin thing is green. it just IS. maybe youd like me better if you didnt have so many dumb opinions that you need to ego defend. Is that better? Classless? Love it? Keep the hate coming. WTF Caleb was super accurate. You need to dump on me for that? Thats DUMB. He is incredibly accurate. I can see it with my own eyes. Why does that bother everyone so much? It would only take a tiny bit of humility and introspection for many of you to realize that you've been the ones disrespectful to me and then projecting that on to me. I wont hold my breath tho. Keep in mind this latest skirmish began when I simply posted that I was impressed by Williams' accuracy. Then you all needed to tell me I didnt know what I was seeing, that I needed to "get over myself" etc - was I calling ANY of you out? No I was posting something positive about Williams. The stuff that was personal was all of you telling me I didnt know what I was talking about. Was that you all respecting my opinion? Arent you in fact the ones doing everything youre saying Im doing? Well Adam Hoge said the same thin on the score. So i guess Im not so dumb after all huh. Take a freaking look at yourselves. How often youre climbing on me after I say something about football, not about you. This all started with Fields. I was right. He sucks. Youre mad at the truth, not me. Im gonna continue to say what I see on the field. If that offends you, get a helmet or something. But if you need to get in my face about it while yelling how classy you are and what a jerk I am, take a moment to see who is making it personal first. its not me. Im talking about football. But if you need to be jerks, then do it. And dont cry when I return serve. It's your decision how to set the tone here not mine. But I can tell you Im about reached my limit and Im gonna come back in symmetry. A bully punches you in the face, then you punch back and the bully cries about how unfair you are. It's pathetic.

Ok you naysayers. Here's a quote from Adam Hoge on the score. "I'll give you an example from even individual drills today. They're just running go routes, over and over and over again. You see it in every NFL practice you've ever been to. But I don't know how often I've seen a ball forty yard down field in the same exact spot throw after throw after throw with like the same trajectory right in the same spot, all of them accurate, the only one that hit the ground was a drop by one of the rookie tryout tight ends. Usually they still - that one landed two yards out of bounds, this one was a little bit inside towards the hash, theyre not always accurate." If you want to disagree with me, go ahead. But as far as QB evaluation, I've been right every single time. If you find that arrogant, there's not much I can do to dissuade you all from it, but maybe in the future you'll just say you disagree, and not treat me like I'm SO dumb and off base, since I keep being right. Remember, this whole idea that after 15 years, suddenly I dont respect peoples right to an opinion was because i said Justin sucks and a lot of you were sure i was out of my mind. Well I was 100% right, so i wasnt being arrogant. You were being wrong and SO sure you were right that it felt like I was arrogant. Well, once again, you all told me that Caleb's accuracy in those simple warmups was common and I must not know what Im talking about, but then here comes Hoge saying the EXACT same thing. So, maybe you guys should respect my right to have an opinion, since I kind of know what Im talking about.

I dont think I need to get over myself to say that Williams was extra accurate. I was impressed. You werent. Cool.

In thinking more about these reactions i think i should add some more info. First off these are not game type throws. There is a lot of air under those balls. One hopes at full speed those throws would be a lot flatter and get there a lot faster. I thought that was obvious, but maybe I should say it. I'm not saying I see evidence of arm strength in these particular throws. I'm not saying they are hard throws to make. I'm just saying these three things. 1) Every throw looks the same from his body. Love the consistent body mechanics. 2) Every throw looks great coming off of his compact delivery - love the arm mechanics too. and I guess this was the controversial one 3) Every throw is dropping in exactly the same place. Each ball is identical in flight path. So it's the repeatability, mechanics and the clean accurate balls they produce that I'm commenting on. I wasnt saying they were hard throws or difficult throws to make, other than the increased accuracy. He is just very consistent in the way he throws, and consequently, the way the ball follows extremely similar paths. Anyone, including Bagent or anyone, can make those rainbow throws, but they wouldn't have them all drop in exactly the same place.

your eighteen year old son can drop a football into a garbage can from 30 yards away 20 out of 20 times? Caleb is a highly accurate QB. And you can see it in everything he throws.