BearFan PHX

lol

It's the most confusing and divisive issue ever in Chicago Sports. And I think one could make a case that it could become a QB controversy, or this kind of acrimony could invade the locker room if you keep both?

maybe he';s better than I thought and is a true depth piece. Thanks for this info. ah you beat me to it. I posted it and then scrolled down and saw you said it first LOL

hahaha it's our Taylor Swift - we finally have a modern franchise hahaha

for sure you could put Mahomes or Brady on a crappy team and it would be hard for them to win a superbowl. Football is the ultimate team sport. But I believe a great QB can do more with less, than a great team can accomplish without a great QB. And that the soundest strategy is to have both. And also that building a roster is easier than finding an elite QB.

I mean top 2 in the league, like Mahomes is now. And of course no one ever comes into the league as that. But I'm saying if you don't have one of those, you're not realistically in a position to have a likely shot at super bowl victories. And you're right about Foles. He did get the MVP of the game though, went for 373 yards, 3 TD and one INT. So they had top notch QB play in that game. I also think things can be true without being 100% certain. That's why I say "multiple superbowls" or "likely" - because there is enough chaos that you can sneak into one if everything goes your way, but if you want to be in a position to think you're a leading contender year in and year out, the only way is with a top elite QB. And that's why I think taking a shot at a possible prospect who could be that (and that's all Williams can be at this point, a prospect) is so valuable. I see a high percentage likelihood that Williams can be that, but of course it depends on lots of factors including coaching and who the Bears put around him too. People saying we need a team around the position are also totally correct. But I dont think if you put a team around Sam Darnold or Marcus Mariotta or someone professional like that that you realistically have any real shot at winning a super bowl. Oh and to the contrarian point, I dont mind that at all - these debates help educate (me at least) and sharpen the arguments etc, so I appreciate that. Despite what is said, I don't mind when people disagree with me at all. I just prefer (not talking to you here) if it's less sarcastic etc. But it's all good. it IS the internet after all.

we also signed a DB from Green Bay today - not a big contract - probably a special teamer.

No team has ever won two superbowls with anything less than a top 2 QB. Every now and then a lesser QB will sneak into a SB win, but only when one of the big names isnt in it. Mahomes, Brady and the manning Brothers have wont he vast majority of the superbowls in the last 25 years. Before that it was Bradshaw, Montana and others. It's a team game and no QB can do it alone, but if you dont have a top 2 QB, youre not realistically in the hunt.

If we can pick up Connor Williams for a low price with a possible option at a higher price if he comes back and performs well that would be a great long term move. As for WR we definitely have a lot of need there. I assume we will pick up a Free Agent, but not a really expensive one, but the odds of us drafting WR at #9 are pretty high. At this point I think it's either WR, OT or DL, and we cant survive without another quality receiver, so that's where I think we will go if the right name(s) are available.

its good because they know it, and its good because they can help teach other guys in positional meetings.

I could be wrong, but I think compensatory picks happen when you lose more and better free agents than you sign. Poles is setting up a system where we will have lots of young players, and if we do well we wont be able to keep them all. So you trade away GOOD players a year before their big payday for extra draft capital, and if you can't find willing partners for that, then they become free agents and you lose them and get compensatory picks. Teams that chase winning today who dont have the roster to sustain that are the ones who sign more free agents than they lose - that's been us. I think starting next year or the year after, we will see this for the Bears. Trading good players away (probably to the chagrin of many members of this board who are overly loyal to current players) and letting free agents walk will get us that increased draft capital in trades and compensatory picks. Then we will be set up in a system that sustains itself. poles has done really well creating this, especially having the balls to tank the 2022 year which was the only way to get here.

right - develop players, sign some, trade the others a year before the big deal. Effectively, it becomes almost like a college program, and thats when your position coaches become so important.

It's all been a BIG secret. Poles always knew he wanted to keep Fields, and Fields knows how to read defenses and everything, they just hid it all because theyre playing long term poker. If they can just confuse the league into thinking Fields is terrible then everyione will be really surprised when suddenly he's awesome. Strategery!

dodged a bullet on that one.

^5 - i think once we get past this logjam, things will get easier on this board. I think poles brings in his guys that make sense and everything works. Right now were kind of at a trouble spot that has to do with high picks that didnt work out, or didnt work out as well as planned, or because they didnt have the right tools around them etc. Whatever it is, we should be in the Poles' flow by this year or next.

Oh I thought this was a threaded group discussion. So much to learn!

I agree that Williams commands a higher price. Just for info sake, here's the chart breakdown. Pick #1 is worth 1,000 points Pick #2 = 717 points Pick #36 = 104.4 points (821.4 rolling total) Pick #40 = 96.8 points (918.2 rolling total) Pick #67 = 58 points (976.2 rolling total) so Dav could still get 23.8 points just to make it even. Pick #111 (middle 4th round) is worth 23.9 points and your right that Williams would command more. I dont think another first would be too much at all in this case. if it was say, pick #5 (worth 428 points on the year you use it) you'd value it as a round lower, so you'd use 5th pick 2nd round to value it which is only another 102.4 points. Not outrageous at all. And of course you know, if I was the Commanders and had to pay #2, #36, #40, #67, #111 and next year's first, I'd do it in a heartbeat for Williams, which is why I wouldn't make that trade from our side even with the extra first. If Williams turns out to be "generational" he'd easily be worth 6 or more first rounders, so what is a 50% shot (lets say) on getting that worth?

Here are the only non Poles acquisitions left on the team: Justin Fields Khalil Herbert Teven Jenkins Jaylon Johnson Cole Kmet Darnell Mooney (?) You can see how he feels about Herbert as a starter since he just signed a starter ahead of him. Teven is good when healthy, but you can imagine him being replaced for next year, this is the last year of his rookie deal. Johnson and Kmet played themselves into big contract extensions. I have no idea what the disposition of Mooney is right now. And then there is Justin.

That's because we are (or were) bad. Good teams cant afford to keep all their players because together they're worth more than the salary cap. We cleared the bench of a lot of the players that Poles didnt bring here. There are only a few of them left now. (cough) When our rookies from the last couple of years grow up, we wont be able to keep them all either but it'll be ok if we dont emotionally hang on to them too long, and let them go when they still have trade value. usually a year before a big payday. A few players you keep no matter what they cost, top of that being QB since its the most important position on the team - get that right, and youre in it as the players around you come and go.

yeah, he'll be ready for another payday in 4 years, and I predict we keep him 3 and then trade him. That's what the good teams do, keep the young players coming through the pipeline and get trade value when they go because they still have value when you trade them. And I think you and I agree on that?

I dont want the Bears to take Caleb because of the media LOL It's because I watched him play. He's great - I'd love to have a great QB.

Pix, Im just not gonna fight with you. When youre nice to me, I respond the same. Youre in control of the tone of your own words, and Im gonna stop even explaining it. Its your choice, and honestly whichever way you go is fine. And Ill just be symmetrical. Im SO sick of talking about this. Whatever you need dude, I wont bother explaining it anymore.

no, because you say "we KNOW you think that obviously" in a sarcastic way to indicate that youre sick of reading it over and over like its too much. And that's fine - theres lots of shit talk on here. feel free, but then you pretend youre not LOL

smart.

Id say he is a 4. As Ive said to anyone that will listen, over and over, he is an incredible runner in the open field, he has a really strong arm and can make all the throws. He also doesnt play in structure, cant read defenses, is one dimensional and NFL defenses cheat him because they know he wont punish them for it. Thats what makes him "garbage" (your word not mine) - he's like a rock paper scissors player that cant choose scissors. He might be great at rock and paper, but all you have to do is throw paper, and he cant win. His talents are diminished and negated by two things: 1) he is now told to slide in the open field instead of putting moves on defenders so he doesnt get hurt, which is smart. 2) he cant read defenses, play in structure and throw in tempo So until he does #2 consistently, defenses will use guys from the middle to clog running lanes and he is finished. Rock, Rock, Paper, Rock. Im gonna keep playing paper. You cant stop me until you learn to throw scissors, and you cant. Therefore, while he is a 4, he has 0 chance of winning a superbowl for us, so his VALUE to us is 0 *IF* you want to win a SB. If you just want to cheer and watch highlights, Justin is awesome. You're so mad at me. Its silly.