BearFan PHX

lol

That was the year he was running - and he's great in the open field. After that, they told him not to put any moves on approaching defenders, but to slide instead, and that took away his best weapon. Also once defenses realized he couldnt punish them for not playing honest in the middle, they had schemes to contain his run too.

yeah but we saw on film when Fields had all kinds of time and a man open he was looking right at and didnt pull the trigger. That happened a lot. And also, there are #1 picks and #1 picks, they arent all the same. No one thinks that Young was rated as highly as Williams is this year.

More info: Caleb against ranked opponents in 2023: at ND (16) 20-48 loss at Utah (14) 32-34 loss vs Washington (5) 42-52 loss at Oregon (6) 27-36 loss You can see Caleb is scoring well, and the USC defense is terrible. Also, USC didn't have any players who will be drafted in the first 3 rounds of the draft this year, so Caleb did that with lesser talent too.

Grizz - thank you SO much for watching and for that long post! That's awesome! I agree with what you wrote too. I'm glad we are seeing the same things. I would say a few things in response. First off, I'll bet you agree that you didn't see Williams holding the ball, and the ball usually came out quick, on time. So that huge narrative just isn't in the film? Secondly, there is nothing wrong with "hero ball" - it's a very important part of being a successful QB in the NFL. When a play breaks down, this is how a good QB can make something from it, so I LOVE when a QB can do that. My knock on Fields was that he only did that, and almost never got the ball out in structure. Williams definitely can do both. I agree about the accuracy on those long balls. He's not always like that, but for sure in that game he missed on three long balls in a row, although one was a pass interference call. He did recover though and score a touchdown on the same drive he overthrew those balls, and threw some other nice long balls later in the game. To your question about "scripted" plays, I'd say that ALL plays are scripted, but what I meant by it was the opening plays for Justin in each game were preset, so he knew what was coming early and could work on those plays especially, rather than learning the whole game plan that deeply. After the first handful of plays, Justin's productivity drops off and he almost never throws in rhythm for the rest of the game. Caleb gets better throughout the game, and seems to be able to play in structure a lot. You said he lost to better competition, but that was because his defense gave up too many points. Caleb still put up numbers against every opponent, and scored a lot. USC scored these points in 2023: 56, 66, 56, 42, 48, 43, 20, 32, 50, 42, 27, 20 - I think you can say that the losses are not on Caleb? Also, did you love his compact delivery? I am blown away by it, i don't see anyone how throws with so little motion and the time from starting to throw until the ball comes out is insanely fast. Also, you saw the accuracy on short and intermediate routes? How he leads the receivers etc? To me he looks NFL ready right now, and I cant think of another QB since Luck that looked that ready. Dude, thank you SO much for doing that. At least now we are talking about the same things.

I agree. But if he did, we should grab him in a second.

Justin is definitely electrifying at times, but i dont think you can call him solid at all.

for sure. a ham sandwich would be an upgrade over Jackson, and Byard is a very good player. Getting a little old, but we only need him one or two years.

I think NFL salary cap inflation makes it look a little high? He's also been a very good player, and I think McKinney is going to need something like $12M/yr and a longer term deal. For sure Poles doesn't want to be tied to a big salary long term at FS. He'll draft one this year or probably next year. Especially since he's done so well finding defensive backs in later rounds. I wonder how much is guaranteed and how easy it would be to get out of the deal next year too?

The Bears have signed S Kevin Byard to a 2 year deal. Details are not yet available. This is a HUGE move. He's been a perennial All Pro. Our secondary is stacked now. Poles has filled the two glaring holes in our roster (C and FS) and free agency hasnt even started yet. That's not to say he won't do more at center. These moves are also a sign that he's not trading the #1 pick.

That would be quite a story for sure.

I agree the debate is over, but not everyone does. To me what youre saying about that makes all kinds of sense. I can say that Fields does not have offset language, so if we cut him and another team signs him we are still on hte hook for his $ - but it isn't THAT much. But i do disagree with you about having Justin in camp with Caleb. i think that's a bad idea - but holding on to Justin until you get value might make sense, just dont have him actually in camp? Also if we do end up trading him for a 5th or something, at least we do get that money off of our cap.

I doubt that Russell Wilson wants to be a bridge QB, but if he did, we could get him cheap and take a QB off of the market to help the Fields trade market in one move. On the other hand, if no team offers him a legit starting spot, which is possible for sure, he might just take the Denver money and retire.

I'm guessing (pure guesses) that Poles is getting 5th round pick offer(s) and thinks it's not enough. I think he'd take a 3rd at this point though.

and this remains true after we draft Williams too - we will still need to develop him, and put weapons and protection around him.

no doubt, if you have Mahomes or Brady and you cant give them any pocket at all, youre screwed. Football is the ultimate team sport and the weakest link makes the rest a problem. On the other hand, if you dont have a top QB, the rest doesnt matter. The question is "have teams built rosters without having the #1 pick to trade down for a haul?" and of course the answer is yes. But "have teams won multiple superbowls without a dominant top QB?" and the answer to that is no. So this is the opportunity to get one, and i dont think you let it slip by. That doesnt mean we dont need OL help and WRs. It just means you dont have to pass on the QB to get them,

Dav, thank you. I know Warren is involved, but I don't know if he is the final decision maker. I had heard that Warren didnt want to keep Flus and Poles did, so you can take that with a grain of salt too. Who knows? As long as they make the right decisions, Im OK with it, although it's strange for the GM not to have final say, since it's his job on the line if he gets it wrong - but on the other hand, when you want to trade future draft picks etc you always need sign off from the owners or in this case Warren. I doubt Warren would stick his fingers into most things, other than to simply be a rubber stamp to approve - but huge decisions like this one, he is probably more involved with? I think of the (silly) movie draft day and how much pressure the owner had about the pick. It's fiction of course, but they interviewed a lot of NFL people to try to make it somewhat realistic about what kinds of pressure the GM feels even if the decision is theirs in the end?

I agree with most of this, and generically, youre correct. The thing is, you have a talent like Williams available to us, and you just cant pass a player like this up. If he was just another decent prospect with questions etc then sure, what you say makes all the sense in the world. But a QB like Williams doesnt come around often, and when they do, they are not likely to be available to us. This is the moment. ANd I trust Poles like you do to find a way to put people around him too. Because youre right, that's also very important.

I dont get why you guys wont watch the tape. And if you wont look for yourself why youre so mad that I dont agree with what someone else that you dont even know wrote. If you watch youll see this isnt arrogance, its just thast the narrative that Williams holds the ball too long is a lie. You dont need to take my word for it, just look for yourself.

I was using it as proof that I am not the only one that thinks that. I use tape as proof that Caleb isnt what they say he is. Watch the tape and then youll know too.

That's why youre ignorant and have no idea what youre talking about. Watch some film. Ill put a link below 20 minutes with Kurt Warner. You trust him. Its not highlights or lowlights, its a full game in context, against a quality opponent - so you can see how he comes back from a bad throw etc. Use your eyes and tell me you dont see Caleb playing on time and in structure. And this game wasnt cherry picked - Id never seen it before the other day when I searched on youtube for something I hadnt seen so I could "wager" with Grizz about it without manipulating the outcome. He didnt watch it either. You can even hear Warner saying that is isnt one of his highlight games. If you dont watch all 22 game tape, then youre just hypnotized by someone elses narrative. Use your own eyes and then tell us fairly what you see. I challenge you. 20 minutes. Just tell us what you see. Does he hold the ball too long? Does he make multiple reads? Does he manipulate the pocket? How is his release? Are WRs hit in time and with location to get YAC? Does he throw with anticipation? How about velocity? Not every play is great in this. But watch it, and then tell us if what that stupid sportswriter wrote is true, or whether they lied to you for clickbait and got you all upset defending a lie all this time.

you saw some edited crap. watch full games, otherwise you're just talking crap. I have seen Caleb throw the ball in tempo and structure dozens and dozens of times. If youre saying he cant do that, then you are just wrong. If you dont know, you dont know. I cant keep explaining it to you guys. If you want to live in fantasy world, then fine. I dont care. But just remember when Caleb comes to Chicago and lights is up you were against him. Pathetic.

I am predicting Williams' success based on skills I see him showing off on film. Justin's biggest problems in the NFL are the same things he showed on his college film. Caleb is a #1 pick, the 1st QB taken, Justin was a #11 pick, the 4th QB taken. Also, Justin has played in the NFL for 3 years now, and we can see who he is. How do I know that no one has offered a first rounder for him? Because we didnt trade him. How do I know we want to trade him? Because Poles said he was trying to get it all done quick to "be fair to Justin" that isnt language youd use for your franchise QB. Now, I am done hearing about how I am so sure of myself. I am sure of THIS. I am not always sure. This isnt about my character its about how incredibly dumb not drafting Williams would be. It's not even close. Watch the film. Until you do you dont know what youre talking about, youre just repeating things you read that were written to get clicks. if you watch the film, then you will know. If you watch and still disagree, then we can talk. It's like youre telling me the earth is flat. People think that. Do they have a right to? Yes they do. But it isnt rude of me to call it delusional. it is freaking ridiculous Lemme find you another clip of a national NFL reporter showing you exactly how inane this argument is. Look at her face, she is literally stunned they are even asking the question straight up. Then calls it "emotional" Im sorry that the fact that Justin isnt very good and that we are about to draft a major prospect is hurting everyones feelings, but it has nothing to do with me, so I think its time for people to deal with their emotions in a way other than taking it out on me. I was early to say Fields wasnt good. And I was right. You can all (Justin lovers) be as nasty as you like, while simultaneously saying Im the nasty one, but it's cultish. Play from 24:30

where did you see this?

in terms of his attitude yes. I wasnt saying he was already a superstar, I was saying he has epic swagger, and his not being humble could be a good thing as a leader and a winner. And yes, it really does feel cultish. And not just to me, but lots of pundits, reporters and NFL people. Fields is mediocre at best, and there is just so much emotion here, and we aren't even talking about Fields, we're talking about a different kid entirely, and STILL it's about Fields. You guys can pick at me all you want, but it isn't about me at all. Fields is not good. No one in the NFL is offering a first rounder for him. Williams is good. He is worth the first overall pick and a likely huge haul to get him. That's just the truth. You can think whatever you want, but being so cocky about something that makes no sense is "cultish"