BearFan PHX

I said "I don't THINK he would" - I still think Flus should have been fired, and if Poles keeps Justin and doesn't draft a high pick rookie QB, then Poles should be fired and probably would be after a dismal next season. Also what I said was that keeping Flus would miss an opportunity to get a better coach who could give us an edge in winning. I also said we could win with Flus if the assistants are good. I said Justin was the one you HAVE to get rid of, and Flus is one you SHOULD get rid of. I still think Harbaugh would have been better. But you're right that anything can happen, but it's also fair to say that the chance that Fields is back is miniscule. It's that pesky difference between possible and likely again. Wishes rather than information and analysis. If your main argument is that anything I ever say is probably be wrong because I didn't think he'd keep Flus, I think that's pretty weak, since every one of us has been wrong multiple times. When Fields is traded do i get to discount anything you ever say again because you liked him? That wouldnt be fair either would it? But dude, Fields sucks as a QB. I cant believe we are still here at this late date, hearing that the league isnt even interested in trading much for him, and you and a few others are still so sure that Fields is awesome. He isnt. He's a bad QB. A great runner, a great person, a terrible NFL QB. You really need to get back to reality here.

Im not suggesting they will "just figure it out later" but with any draft, if you're not picking with #1 then you're mapping scenarios and contingencies. Every GM does that throughout the draft, it'd be rare to not be doing that, as you can only avoid that with the #1 pick. So it's what they do as a matter of course anyway. I also think Poles can pretty much "gamble" that Williams has no injuries, since there is no indication of anything, and he WILL get a definitive answer before the draft, just not before trading Fields. So the question really is, if Caleb announced tomorrow that he is quitting football, or he had a medical evaluation at the combine that came back really bad, would Poles be keeping Fields? I don't think he would, so that means Williams' medical eval isn't really a determining factor in making the Fields trade?

I am sure Poles wishes he had the physical now rather than later, but i also think it changes nothing. If there is a physical problem with Williams Poles will take that into account for his draft strategy. But Fields is gone not just because Williams is available, but because he sucks as a QB. That isnt changing no matter what Williams does.

LOL dude, Justin is gone, accept it. Also Caleb will give the Bears physicals before the draft, just not before their trade window. And if Caleb suddenly retired, the Bears would STILL draft a QB this year and move on from Fields, so the medical eval isn't necessary in order to trade Justin. He gone.

Maybe we should sign him as the vet for Caleb to learn under. Im half kidding.

And mine to you too. It's always really shocking when it happens unexpectedly, especially to someone our age or younger. There is the loss of that person, which is a lot, and there is also a reminder of our own mortality as well. Life is short, we gotta fill it with the best stuff we can while we can.

I agree with everything on this thread, especially valuing the time you have with loved ones. A good friend of mine died unexpectedly last week. She was 39. I had spoken to her literally 12 hours earlier, and pretty much every day for a while. I went to her house for Thanksgiving. I see my parents (and myself!) aging too. My daughter was like 5 yesterday. She will be 21 in a few weeks and just got engaged to a really great guy. It all goes so fast. Hug the people you love and try to live without hate as much as possible.

yeah, it's not nothing, but it's pretty close to nothing. They will get a physical before the draft. So the question is, if you knew Williams was unavailable, maybe went to Tibet to become a monk and forego football, would you keep Justin then? If the answer is yes, then the physical is slightly concerning, if the answer is no, then it means nothing. For me, it's not even close. Justin is a nice young man, and a great open field runner, but as a QB he sucks. You can see the lack of interest in him from the league too. He has just been so overhyped for some reason and people have lost their damn minds. If you watch all 22 film, you know. Justin is never going to win a superbowl. Ever. No chance.

a rusty what? LOL

So here is Sports Illustrated confirming that Williams opted not to visit the Bears tomorrow, and to wait on his physical until after his pro day. And this is normal. Team visits are usually later. Williams not participating in physicals during the combine was the curveball. I dont think it's a very big deal, and I dont think it will prevent Poles from trading Fields either. The simple fact is that Fields really isn't very good, and we are going to need a new QB this year even if Caleb Williams gets hit by a bus and never plays in the NFL. I would easily take Maye or Daniels over Fields. https://www.si.com/nfl/bears/news/caleb-williams-reportedly-delays-bears-plans-for-physical

Me too. Two weeks ago I had doubts, but now that I've watched more film, and seen Caleb's interviews, I'm all in. And I think a lot of the anti Caleb stuff is really just leftover pro Fields stuff. If you remove Fields-love from the equation, we are looking at one of the best prospects coming into the NFL in quite a long time. Man, Fields really played with some people's heads.

hopefully not to us - I've had my fill of Pittsburgh WRs for a while.

I think this too, but I was trying not to offend those people. Justin is a B level QB who cant win tough games. He is an amazing open field runner. He reminds me of Hester, who also was a threat to score every time he got into the open field, but was also unable to learn to play his offensive position.

It's a mathematical possibility, but in realty, I think we could all see where Justin was headed by the end of November. I think without a top QB youre not really competing for the superbowl. If we couldnt draft a top prospect what would we do? We'd do what most teams would do and put someone at QB, either Justin or some free agent, or a McCarthy or something - but it wouldnt matter, wed have zero chance of winning a superbowl any time soon. This offseason has really brought it home to me - if Atlanta signs Fields, they KNOW they arent trying to really win a superbowl, theyre filling seats. Justin makes highlights, not wins. In a way the whole NFL is just exhibition except for a few teams that are in contention. The rest is drama narrative to fill our days and make us click on stuff. I never realized it that starkly until I started figuring out the opportunity we have here and what it would really take. It's crazy that we even have a shot at a QB like this at all. Most teams don't any given year. As for the role of a QB in winning vs a deep roster, youre talking about playing other exhibition teams, youre not talking about beating a great one deep in the playoffs. That's a whole other level. You need a QB that can defeat their QB for that. If we dont have someone that has a decent chance to defeat Mahomes, then we arent really on anyh kind of reliable path to win a superbowl. A couple teams have lucked into one on a year where the ball didnt bounce Brady or Mahomes way, but thats a dream not a plan.

People are still clinging to threads of hope, but Justin is not going to be on the Bears roster next year. The fact is that he is not a good QB. He hasnt won games or put up stats. And it's really late in the game for this to still be bubbling up. It was over a couple months ago already.

I agree. And I think there are reasons why people might be lying to themselves that are common and normal. For one, around this time of year, whoever was the presumptive #1 pick is always being criticized. New faces are trending upward, and winner fatigue sets in. I think it's a natural human dynamic. But it doesnt really have anything to do with Caleb's abilities or future - it's just a normal thing that happens every year. Maybe i'ts that the proclaimed savior of the draft every year is only a human being, and once the hype outpaces the player, then the player can look lacking. But it's just a trick, they didn't change, the narrative did. Also, we've been snakebit at QB so many times. I've personally had a feeling of dread about Williams, but I could not say why. I finally had to realize that it was cynicism or fear of blowing it or something. Try as I might, I couldnt find any external evidence for that feeling, but I still had it, so I figure it must be normal for us Bears fans. And some group probably is still feeling salty about Justin, or has their eyes on a big haul of picks - neither should really take any shine off of Caleb Williams. Even if someone legitimately believes that the haul of picks is a better deal, if it doesn't happen they should still be excited about Williams. But I do think it's time for people to accept the situation and realize what an amazing opportunity this is. Potentially this could end up to be the best and most important player in Bears history.

Sometimes the best players in a sport are arrogant and not "team first" personalities. Michael Jordan wasn't humble. He was arrogant and driven as a winner. When Caleb cried, it was because they didn't win. It means that much to him. i think you want that in a player. The opposite would be Jay Cutler for example. I get greatness vibes from Williams. Obviously nothing is guaranteed right now, and the Bears could screw him up too, but as a lump of clay to be molded, I see potential for greatness and an attitude that goes with it. I'm not mad at that at all. In fact, I predict that if Williams does develop like he can, he will outrank the coaches on the team within a few years. I think he has the character makeup to drag this franchise into winning whether they cooperate or not.

I agree with all of this. I think now from having watched a bunch of film on Williams, that he has all the tools on the field, physical and mental. I think if he busts it will be either, as you said, because of injury, or because the Bears didn't develop him properly. There's a lot here riding on Waldron's shoulders. I think he knows what he's doing, but the Bears have been so snakebit with QBs. That's not a predictive fact or anything, just Bears fan PTSD lol Anyway, I'm not predicting failure at all, I'm just saying I think development is now where any concern about Williams busting should go, and not to Williams' incoming skill set, abilities or strengths and weaknesses. He's got it all, now Waldron needs to do his part. And of course Poles needs to upgrade his protection and get him weapons.

me too! I cant say that Williams is going to be a Brady Mahomes type, but I can say it looks like there is a good chance he can be. And that is very exciting. The thing is, while there are many examples on film of him holding the ball waiting for substandard receivers to get open, or just looking for the deeper routes, there are alos LOTS of examples on film of him processing and getting the ball out quickly. He's not another Justin. Like DABEARS says, his average may be similar to Justin's, but his standard deviation is high. That means sometimes he is holding the ball much longer than Justin did, and other times it's coming out fast. So unlike Justin who had problems reading defenses and rarely showed throws in schedule, Caleb has a ton of examples of him reading and throwing quickly. He throws with anticipation, and leads receivers well too for YAC. Caleb doesnt have processing issues, and once he does decide to throw, the throwing motion is compact and efficient. It's very impressive. So his arm motion is already great. His footwork is pretty good, but when it isnt, his accuracy is still great because of his arm strength. Like Mahomes, he can throw accurately off platform. Caleb doesnt need a lot of QB whispering, he just needs to be told to take what the defense gives him more often. And its not like he struggles with that - there are myriad examples of him doing it on tape. for sure, we all are. Until yesterday I had a nagging negative feeling about Caleb. It wasnt based on anything, i thin it's just what you're saying here. But i watched more film and his interviews yesterday, and when I saw his demeanor, I was sold. He reminds me of Kobe Bryant. He was asked if he asked the Bears anything (or what would he ask them, Im not sure which) and he said "do you want to win?" it sounds like Caleb is going to be a real leader on the team, maybe even eventually arguing with or outranking the coaches. I know that can be a red flag in a lot of cases, but what i see is a guy who will check the coaching mistakes. It seems like he is going to drag everyone around him to victories. And to me, that's the real deal.

Watching more film, and I think at this point it's time to stop worrying about Caleb Williams, and time to start worrying whether the Bears will screw this up, or whether Waldron is gonna make it work. Caleb is everything he needs to be. I've seen enough. If they don't screw him up, this is gonna be the most important Bears player in a LONG time. And if he wins four superbowls, he's gonna be the #1 Bear over Butkis and Payton too. Get excited for what's possible now. We have a real shot at having a legend.

I'm, watching all 22 tape, not TV broadcast. Good games and bad ones. Complete games, not highlight reels. What I see in his fast release isn't something that I read about in an article anywhere. It's just what my own eyes tell me. it jumps off the screen. But now that you've challenged it, I did a quick search, and here are some quotes (and again, i didn't read these first, I just watched the tape) "Extremely quick release, especially on underneath throws. Allows for him to get the ball to his receivers in positions where they can pick up yards after the catch." "Processes the game at a very high level for a player coming out of college. There are dozens of instances on film where he rapidly gets through full-field reads to find the open man in structure." https://247sports.com/nfl/chicago-bears/article/2024-nfl-draft-scouting-report-usc-qb-caleb-williams-226484868/ "Twitchy release helps generate heat on drive throws." "Rapid-fire transition from fake to throw on RPOs." https://www.nfl.com/prospects/caleb-williams/32005749-4c17-6897-a516-9754023602e6 "Williams has a clean, quick and, most importantly, repeatable throwing motion" https://sports.yahoo.com/heres-what-makes-caleb-williams-a-special-nfl-draft-prospect-and-why-he-compares-to-a-legendary-qb-045029042.html Sportswriters read stats like TTT and then make up these insane narratives. Then other sportswriters read them and echo them. All you have to do is watch some all 22 games. Then you can see for yourself, and you'd agree with me. It's not rocket science, you just gotta look at it instead of reading some article.

It seems like you only read the first sentence i wrote and misunderstood me. You're talking about time to throw, not his release. I'm saying his actual physical release. The way his arms moves when he throws - compact, no wasted movement. Once he decides to begin his throwing motion, the ball comes out faster than almost anyone I've seen, and it looks like Marino. Let's say that at the same moment both Caleb and Justin decide to throw the ball to a WR. The ball is out of Caleb's hands so fast after that, while Justin still has to sit his butt down (why? I dont know), then pat the ball and then finally throw the ball with his wrist way over his ear and a slow large circular throwing motion. Caleb doesn't squat (whatever the hell that is that JF is doing) he keeps his spine straight and tall, and his throwing motion is much more compact with his wrist much lower and a lot less time to get the ball out. That's a quick release. The articles you're citing, aren't talking about his release. They're talking about time to throw, holding the ball. And that was because Caleb was looking for longer routes and homes runs, not because he couldn't read defenses in rhythm. I understand there are certain "common knowledge narratives" in the press, but if you actually look at the film, it's all there to see pretty clearly. Caleb absolutely goes through reads quickly and can get the ball out fast with a low TTT when the play calls for it. I've seen him do it on film dozens of times. Caleb is nothing like Fields. They're VERY different. And the more Im watching, the more I think we are about to get a Hall of Famer. If you think Caleb and Fields are similar, you're gonna feel dumb when Caleb starts to ascend in ways Fields never could. It is potentially like Michael Jordan coming to Chicago and youre saying "he's just another mediocre player like the one we got rid of" I think that's gonna be actually embarrassing in hind sight. We are finally getting our QB in Chicago for the first time in EVER, and you're totally missing it!

I agree with all of this! I was saying, whatever else happens, you can count on the Bears to pick up a center and a free safety in free agency!

one way or another we are going to have to get a center and a free safety in free agency. they might be high priced sure fire starters, or they might be journeymen with an expectation that rookies will compete with them, but we will be looking there for sure, even if our biggest signings go to WR, DL or whatever.

Poles has definitely feasted on the positions that were deepest in each of the last two drafts, and I suppose by random distribution, it works out that the positions we still need are deeper this year because they were not around the past two years. This is what staying disciplined get you, and Poles has surely done that.