BearFan PHX

Youre just looking to fight. I was saying that I acknowledge that you have a right to your opinions. Sheesh dude. Frickin relax.

well said. I agree with all of that.

exactly

this isnt about lessening expectations to cover my ass, its just about the truth of rookies coming into the NFL. Youve been watching football for a long time, do you ever remember a rookie QB not going thru some adversity? Also to your being mad about Fields, you keep bringing him into the conversation about Williams, and writing blah over ten times does seem a little emotional? You seem to be angrily throwing the idea that he is a generational prospect around, and then saying if he isnt perfect then that means we should have built around Fields instead. So thats cool thats what you think, but in the same breath to pretend it isnt is silly. The tone of your post is surely emotional, capital letters, blah multiple times, saying "sorry" sarcastically, and expecting perfection are all strong signals that read angry. You start off saying i dont read, but I do. Thats what i just read. Caleb should show great flashes of greatness, and he will make some rookie mistakes. Thats about the most obvious non controversial statement I can imagine. if it makes you upset, I dont know what to tell you. All rookies have a learning curve. Theres never been one that didnt. But at the same time, we should see evidence that he is better than most pretty quickly. It just wont be as consistent as it is in year 2 etc. Again, not controversial at all. But i also think Justin is not going to be great in Pittsburgh either. I think he sucks, and the whole league agreed, and youre just holding on to something thats also clouding your view on how youre going to treat Williams. But you can fan however you like.

So we disagree about Fields. I don't think Fields would be able to read defenses no matter how much (realistic) protection he received. We don't have to agree on that. As far as generational, Williams is a generational prospect, which is different than being a generational NFL QB. It means he has the best chance to become a generational NFL QB, but right now he is nothing in the NFL, like all rookies. The question isn't so much about how he hits the ground as who he will be in year two. We should see flashes that show us who he will be, and we will also likely see hard lessons learned when he tries to fit a ball into a window that closes too fast in the NFL, or gets baited by superior defensive backs until he learns what exactly is and isn't open in the NFL. That's expected, and has been true for every great NFL QB in history. To expect Caleb Williams to be immediately great would be to expect more from him than any other great QB in NFL history. What I'm saying here is that the acceptable form of "not yet great" is flashes of greatness, interspersed with some mistakes. We will know we are in trouble if he doesn't show those flashes. You may still be mad about Fields, but putting impossible expectations on Williams, that even the best all time QBs didn't achieve out of the gate isn't going to accurately predict his value to the team in the long run. Expect to see a great rookie. That's a fair threshold for Caleb.

Nah, Manning came into a team with nothing, Luck's team was already stocked. Caleb should be at least decent in year one. I think what you hope for are flashes of greatness, and if they are inconsistent, or come with rookie interception mistakes, thats OK. What you dont want to see is consistent mushy oatmeal.

yup - that old story goes "and #3 is the guy that stops that guy from hitting your QB" lol

well yes and no. Youre not wrong about the casual fan, but if you're an informed fan, and I think all of us here are that, then you operate in the realm of reality, and understand that player development is a huge part of NFL success. I dunno if they will be .500 by the middle of the season, but if you throw out the first four games, they should likely be at least .500 after that, and making a run at the playoffs. I do think the Bears are constructed to start winning now. I dont think Eberflus is really on the hot seat as far as wins are concerned this year. If we go 8-9 I think it will be ok depending on how that looked. But for all this prediction of rookie growing pains, there is nothing that says Williams cant come in and be like CJ Stroud was this past year either. I wont be surprised at early inconsistencies, but I wont put a ceiling on this team either. Williams will be a different QB in December too, so theres no saying what could happen then if they get to the playoffs. My prediction is 9-8 or 10-7 and a playoff appearance, with a 50/50 shot of winning a playoff game.

great draft. I just posted something similar to your rational here on the "Bears on the clock" thread. I do think this draft falls off the table around the 18th player, so coming down a bit from #9 to grab a DE makes a lot of sense. I had been kind of thinking that WR would be the pick at #9, especially, if Nabers or Harrison drop (not likely!) and then i thought that building up Caleb is important, so an OT might be the pick, but maybe it is as simple as simply looking at the two positions Poles hasn't upgraded yet: Quarterback and Defensive line. We have needs at DE and DT so I dunno where that would go, or if any of the defensive linemen this year are really all that good, but generically, assuming all player ratings are equal to their draft position (for the math here, obviously never true) a defensive lineman wouldn't surprise me. In order of importance, the most important position on the field is the QB, and so the second most important position is the guy that knocks the QB down.

Waddle and Silvy talking today about something that I'd read before, but "bears" repeating. A few things come into play with this draft. First is that apparently there is an unusual amount of good players electing to stay one more year in college due to the NIL money, resulting in a draft with the fewest underclassmen in memory. If this is a new but ongoing trend then everything will be back to normal next year and going forward as players stay an extra year each year, then this one draft has a deficit, kind of like a leap year. The second thing is that Poles said that if they don't trade back this year, they would still have made 25 picks in three years, which averages out to 8+ a year, so the roster is good in terms of age progression if we dont trade back. In effect, because of the talent deficit, and needs/availability of some free agents, we basically drafted Sweat with the 2nd round pick, Bates with the 5th round pick, and having traded away the 6th and 7th rounder as well. It feels like there is a solid justification for picking a blue chipper with that 9th overall pick, without feeling pressure to trade down to get more players. Now that said, there is every reason to trade the #9 pick down a few slots, if the player youre targeting is likely to still be there. If, for example, the top three WRs go, and the next guy on your list projects to go 15th, you might take him at #13 instead of #9, and if that nets you another 3rd rounder, then that's great. But the strategy would be making that trade to avoid overpaying for that blue chipper, not having to trade down because you need that 3rd round pick. This all feels very professional, and well planned out, including having extra picks next year. Either we are getting really lucky, or we finally have a great GM in the building, or both.

no, it often takes a minute for any quarterback to get used to the new speed of the NFL game, and then learn to do what they can already do but at the new tempo. Maybe our plan is to start him right away, but if it is, its OK if he takes a minute to get used to the new speed with these reps. It has nothing to do with how good he will or wont be in December. You were giving Fields more benefit of the doubt right up to the end of this third season, so I think you can spare a little grace for a rookie. or dont, I dont care. It's where he ends up that matters, not how he starts. What you hope to see early are flashes, proof of concept. Consistency and wins sometimes come later.

I think it's going to have to be Waldron, Joseph and Thomas Brown to teach Caleb. I suspect Brown is the secret weapon, who can play the role a vet QB might have in addition to the OC and QB coach?

Yeah I'm not crapping on Penix - I would rather have him than Daniels or Maye if that was the choice. Im just saying there are historical reasons why his value should be lower. But I cant say that he wont continue to grow in the NFL. Im just glad it's not a bet I have to make!

I think youre right. Bagent is in case of injury.

Thats how I see it too. Penix is a stud, but hes older, so maybe his future ceiling is lower, having already grown, and i think he has a bunch of injuries, but the ball sure does come off of his hand hot. Also the three you mentioned are the ones who read the field the best - the do the best "quarterbacking"

good one - I like Fiske if he is available somewhere after the first two picks we make.

If there is that much interest in Nix and Penix, then i hope they go before 9 so even more players fall to us or we are able to trade down a bit to get the same players. Very cool.

As a vet to be around Caleb, cool, but i sure hope we keep Bagent, i thought he had real promise too.

Thanks for answering adam, I'm not sure I agree, but I'll need to see this in action to see what the real word effects are. I suspect a lot of innovation, and hopefully that is to our advantage.

I'm so new to this rule, I must be missing something. Why is muffing less of a problem now? Isn't it still a fumble?

Good article, thanks.

I thought in 2022 that I saw Fields beat guys in the open field all the time. I agree he doesnt have wiggle, but he was able to abruptly change his line and accelerate and it seemed to be really hard to stop. Not so much of a juker as a cutter. But back in reality, who is our kick returner? Scott?

I'm not sure how it's going to play out. I can imagine there will be a lot more trick plays like reverses and throwbacks. It does basically kill the trick onside play, which is good because you get can get way too much value for a fluke. If you think your team is the stronger one, you dont want or need surprise onside kicks. The good news is that apparently our own ST coach Hightower was one of the people pushing hardest for it, so he might have some stuff in mind about how to game this best. We need a real kick returner now. I don't want Velus again. Maybe someone with a good arm who can throw to the other side, and runs really well in the open field. Damn! We shoulda kept Fields! LOL (yeah I'm kidding, he'd never agree to be just a kick returner, and if he did, he'd be too expensive for that role. Hed probably be great at it though. I always thought of him as similar to Hester)

Ah too bad. Thanks for telling me. I agree with Pix, we definitely need one!

theres also that punter who was amazing in college but wasnt acquired by a team last year because of an accusation of rape that turned out to be bogus. If hes available, id say lets get him!