BearFan PHX

Nah, Justin has one of the slowest releases I've ever seen in an NFL QB and Caleb has one of the quickest I've ever seen at any level. Justin pats the ball before he throws and delivers with a large arm motion. Caleb's wrist doesn't even seemingly separate from his shoulder. He has a freakishly tight and fast delivery. They are on totally opposite ends of the spectrum, and it's OK if you don't see it, it takes a trained eye for sure, but it means you aren't able to really watch the tape in an analytically meaningful way. They are each on totally different ends of the extreme - couldn't be more different. And this doesn't even address decision making in getting the ball out in tempo or anything - this is just the mechanical delivery. Add in Justin's troubles with that, and it's even worse in terms of the ball arriving on schedule. And watch Justin's butt, he squats down before and as he throws too - all these things slowing the play down, and robbing him of strength. Watch Caleb throw - he stands TALL in the pocket, with an elongated spine and the time between when he starts to throw and the ball is out is as fast as anyone who ever did it. This is why they call him generational and he gets comparisons to Marino. Remember, Marino was the only QB to beat the '85 Bears, and it was precisely because even as we blitzed everyone, Marino was able to get the ball out of his hands before they got to him, unlike every other QB they faced that year. Sure it's about fast decision making and all that, but it's also about just how fast and COMPACT the throwing motion is. JF is a B level NFL starter at best, Caleb Williams has traits that could project to be one of the best ever.

for sure, because JF is always squatting. i dont know why, Im SURE they tried to coach him out of that, but he still does it all the time.

yup. its all over his film. once he decides to throw the ball, it's already out.

To the idea that Williams doesnt want to go to Chicago: If that were true, then some scenario would be communicating that to Chicago, and being picked #2 to Washington. If that was a scenario he'd like, then he wouldnt have answered this way. I see an arrogant ubercompetitor. If he is able to dominate in the NFL, then this feels Jordan-esque. If he fails, then it will be sheer arrogance. But if he can back it up, you can see a GOAT int he making with this attitude. It sounds like how Brady talks. Julian Edelman tells a story of how he went to Brady's house in the spring of some year, and he went down into Brady's home gym. On the wall was a date and location. Edelman asked, "what's that?" and Brady told him "thats the time and place of the superbowl this year and we are going to win it." At the time I think they had 3 rings. Maybe is was four? Anyway Edelman says "we got you, we're gonna get that you ring, you're gonna beat Montana" And Brady got visibly angry and serious and looked Edelman in the eye and said "Im not trying to beat Montana. I'm going for Jordan" Guys we may not be used to it, but Bears passing greatness may be right in our grasp.

One of Calebs strengths, and you can see it clearly in that clip adam, is how fast his release is. His throwing motion is so compact, it reminds me of Dan Marino. You don't see many QBs ever with a faster release.

it certainly is the smoke season - lots of disinformation pro and con, especially around trade values. But at the end of the day, if more than one team actually wants Fields, then the price will go up, and if there's only one, it goes down. And yeah, what the hell is sportskeeda? LOL

welcome back - and that's good. we can read articles and narratives, but there is no substitute for watching film and having our own thoughts. Respect for you.

yup thanks glad to see hes not shorter. that checks that box for me

thank you!

he would have been a great coach for us.

That must have been amazing. Im such a fan of his.

Quincy Jones! Great piece of music.

I guess it depends on how you measure it. I agree that there are times he does all those things, so from that point of view you can call it a concern. But I tend to evaluate these guys by looking to see what they CAN do. So while he sometimes holes the ball too long, he also makes quick reads and throws with anticipation, so you know he CAN do it. With Justin, he holds the ball because he doesnt see it until it's too late, with Williams, it seems to be because he is waiting for better longer home run options, not because he doesnt see it. There are lots of plays where he goes through his reads quickly and gets the ball out in rhythm too. I think Williams was looking for home runs because his defense was so bad and he felt pressure to score a lot of points. So while I agree that he does sometimes do the things youre saying, I also see plenty of evidence that he is capable of running the offense in tempo too, so I dont worry whether he has that skill or not. He wont need to develop that skill for the pros, hell just need to be more disciplined which is completely coachable?

Good post! A lot of information in there, thank you. Yeah I agree all that's left to fight over is offset language and lump sum payments of guaranteed money. Since the last 4 #1 picks all got it as a lump sum, if the Bears didnt give that to Williams, I'd pretty much blame them and not Williams for that, so that leaves offset language. I cant imagine that's going to be a real sticking point. And while the Bears may have a point in that one, the ball is in their court too, so theyd be a 50/50 participant in any trouble over that issue too. In other words, the Bears can give on both of those points without damaging themselves too much or at all. So they can control and avoid those scenarios? Also as you said, i doubt all those guys were holdouts, they just werent signed quickly. But i dont know how many of them were I totally admit. Now if you wanna talk about franchise tagging in year 6, then I totally think Williams could be difficult about that, as far away as that is for now. One thing I always liked about Brady was that he routinely took about $10M less per year than he was worth, and that gave his team money to keep weapons around him. If Williams really does want greatness, he might think like that too in the future. And when you win a lot of superbowls, you recoup that $10M in endorsements anyway. But if Poles drafts Williams, Im not worried at all that he will hold out. I do think his dad will keep saying stupid stuff, but i dont think it will really matter?

I'm pretty sure the slotted contract system started in 2011, and Enis was drafted before that? The only rookie holdout I can recall since then was over contract clauses related to off the field bad behavior affecting the $. I think that issue has now been settled one way or the other and standardized. I cant recall a rookie holdout since 2011 when the rookie slotted deals started. i think the rules are such that the Bears have literally no choice in what to pay Williams, they cant change it, so I'm not sure why he'd hold out? I cant say whether Williams wants to play in Chicago, but if he doesnt, Poles has to know that. And since it's not being said publicly, it's extremely unlikely I think that he doesnt want to go to Chicago, and if hes saying that privately then its even more unlikely that we draft him anyway and he holds out? There are lots of things to worry about with any high pick, but i dont thinka holdout is really one of them? Caleb's dad seems like an idiot. Kind of a Venus and Serena Williams' dad thing. he will cause trouble again Im sure, but i dont think it will affect Caleb and the Bears, but just be silliness in the press. Pat Mahomes is having some sort of trouble in the press with having family members try to extort him for money or something, and we'd still take him all day

Someone needs to actually measure the guy

I agree entirely. Drafting a QB in late rounds is not gonna fill a hole at starting QB without some incredible luck of the sort that you cant possibly count on.

In both of those cases, Manning and Elway were overt about not wanting to be drafted by that team, and Caleb isnt saying that in interviews, and is showing a lot of love toward Chicago pizza etc - its dumb stuff, but not the actions of someone who doesnt want to be drafted by the Bears. BUT there is a scenario I can imagine where Caleb doesn't want to be hated the way you dislike Elway, and still wants to do avoid Chicago quietly behind the scenes. Im not saying this is happening, but just to play out the scenario... If Caleb doesnt want to be a Bear, and doesnt want that to be known publicly, then someone tells Poles through intermediaries that this is the case. Poles then takes a different QB or trades down, saying he preferred Maye or Daniels anyway, possibly gets a huge haul of picks, and no one is the wiser. I imagine that if Poles hears this from Caleb he wouldnt want to go public with it either, because it makes it look like he cant land the guy he wants. So it would all be secret. But it still wouldnt end with us drafting Caleb and then Caleb holding out. It would end with taking a different player #1 or trading out of #1, and we'd never find out the truth of why it happened. Rookie deals are set in stone too, so theres no contract reason for Caleb to hold out either. So I think if we draft him, he will play for us.

No concerns on your list of skills. He shows that all plenty in the film. And a lot of people don't know this but John Madden was a woman with three testicles LOL Seriously though, Im assuming his medicals are fine. The Bears will give him a medical eval, just not today. Did they measure his height at the combine?

well now we know that we didnt pursue him and get rebuffed. Neat stuff, dude.

Youre right, and every QB needs to make a huge incremental step up into the NFL. Predicting how that will go is why this is so hard to do. No one is ready for the NFL coming out of college. The first day of training camp is the first time they've seen NFL defenses and their speed, and how small the new passing windows are. As far as whether Williams had those skills you listed in college, the proof is already in hours of tape. The Bears and everyone else already know he can do all those things at the college level. He is as impressive a prospect as there is. What's left is character. Not just if they are troubled, but how competitive they are and how they will handle the transition and stress in the NFL. For example, one worry might be - since Caleb was so good in college, how does his ego react to not being up to NFL quality initially. Does his ego tell him he is and shut down, or does his competitive fire burn hotter to study and get better. I think it strongly looks like the latter, which is great, but this is where the uncertainty still lies, his on the field skill is already off the charts on the tape.

the Dad thing is old, but the not throwing is new. Then again, it's not uncommon for top rated Qbs to only throw at their pro days, there's nothing to gain, and some possibility to lose. Maye and Daniels aren't throwing this year either. Last year Bryce Young didn't throw at the combine - I think it's common for top rated guys not to.

right - the Eagles may have wanted Carter and helped stoke the character issue fire, but that doesnt mean that Poles got duped either. I agree he made the right decision.

if Caleb is a weirdo in some way, that either works for or against him. The obvious against is that he would play a victim role if negativity comes along, and become more activist than player. But that doesnt seem like his personality at all. Look at the other side - let's say hypothetically (NOT saying this is true at ALL!) that Caleb is a really weird fetish guy. There is some chance that he wants to prove to the world that the greatest QB who ever lives ALSO happened to like to dress up like a nurse and wrestle in jello. You could imagine that could motivate him even more in a Jackie Robinson kind of way. I couldn't stand Colin Kaepernick, but I LOVE Dennis Rodman. Now I think the nails thing is just because his mom is a nail tech, and doesn't even mean he is a weirdo at all. I think it's a giant nothingburger, but if my investigators told me there was more to it, it wouldn't be a positive or a negative inherently, it would just go back to the original most important question you ask any QB - what is your character, how competitive are you, are you a leader, is winning so important to you that it's almost unhealthy? If you get the right answer to those questions, it doesnt matter what the THING is, even if there is no thing at all, you still need the right answer to those questions. They and talent are literally all that matter for any QB.

some of these "Red Flags" are recycled things from months ago. Remember that we are in pre draft smokescreen land. Any negative piece on Caleb has the effect of getting lots of clicks AND you can imagine there are some other teams wanting to muddy the waters on Caleb hoping to maybe shake him free from Chicago. That may sound paranoid, but understand these teams hire private investigators and teams of researchers to find out everything about all of these kids. If you connect your franchise to a top QB prospect, and he grows into his potential, you are talking about eventually giving a guy like over a quarter of a billion dollars. They look under every rock, and they use disinformation and counterintelligence operations like any business worth billions of dollars would on their primary investment and product. Somewhere there are PR agents working for the Commanders and other teams, trying to prime the pump for reporters, feeding them scraps of negative information, hoping to goad that reporter into doing something that will make that reporter money by writing negative pieces on Caleb. It's not that hard of a sell.