BearFan PHX

LOL yeah that was the joke i was making - about not giving it to Marshawn.

I think NFL history is full of offensive and defensive guys who have failed, and some who have succeeded. Im not sure anyone can say that one side of the ball or the other is the key to predicting success as a HC. I fully understand that developing Caleb is a top priority, just as building a culture of accountability and discipline must also be a top priority. I see the genius (yeah Ill use that word!) of Johnson as an OC, but I have concerns about his as a HC leader. I see the toughness of Vrabel, and I know he will build a disciplined team, but i have concerns about who the OC will be. It's not easy to balance these needs. One thing I am sure of is that there is no easy answer, and support for either of these guys (and a few others) is understandable and makes sense. No one is stupid for wanting one or the other or Carroll or Gruden etc.

these are both good points. If we could find an offensive Vrabel, I'd be ALL for it. But if a candidate like that doesnt exist, I prefer leadership over schemes. Schemes are for coordinators anyway?

Oh, I have nothing but praise for Johnson's skills as an OC. The comment about shoop was just funny,a nd true, but it is obvious by what he's done that he is a superior OC. I do have questions about him as HC, but he is no John Shoop for sure. I mean, the video I posted was all about Johnson's offensive genius.

dont forget clock management too - it's like Eberflus is still doing it.

I absolutely hate when that happens. it's insane.

Holy crap! That 4th and 1 throw and catch by Moore! Wow!

it's OK to disagree. I dont see it the way you do, it's all good. Also, the ball is following a ballistic path, so further down the field the ball wouldn't be as high, and after 12+ yards velocity doesn't need to be touch. With better coaching, and time, Caleb and Odunze should hopefully be more on the same page next year.

ha! agree.

I have to disagree on that one, Odunze throttled down, to settle into the zone, but the zone was even wider if he had continued across and gained depth. Had Odunze been there, the ball would have been fine for a nice throw. Settling down into a zone isnt a bad thing, and continuing across and up is a great thing to do too. Caleb has to throw long before Odunze's final position can be known from what you see, with anticipation, so it's a matter of what the team is preaching, and what the anticipation rules are. Clearly, by Caleb showing "go deeper and across" with his hands to Odunze, Caleb was convinced that was the right answer. Maybe he was wrong, but usually it's what the QB wants that is the right answer? It's gonna be one of those things that is clearer in the all 22 film later in the week I think. I'm personally convinced that was on Odunze.

I think that was a case of Odunze not working up and across the field. Not on Caleb.

Glad to see Dexter out there.

That's how i see it too - those are the two scenarios, and the associated questions that go along with each of them. And does Johnson have what it takes to lead as a Head Coach.

A guy like Pete Carroll will know how to run an offense. He wont be giving the ball to a converted offensive lineman at the goalline in a critical moment - he will know to give it to our power back to run in, and not fool around, with, say a slant pass or something. LOL Its a cheap shot, just a joke

Ha!

Merry Christmas everyone!

yup

Im starting to think we havent been a very good franchise LOL

maybe 31 - 14 but yeah this is sure looking like it.

If that scandal didnt exist, Id fully agree about Gruden. And you said it well about commanding a room. And the scandal doesnt really bother me, but I don't know how it plays with each player, many of whom have chosen to put "stop hate" on their helmets. But im not even saying I know what theyd think. I just dont know how to value it for each player at all. I also really hope we get it right, and i am less interested in having called it correctly than I am in Caleb becoming an all time great QB. If that happens with any of these guys, i will be ecstatic!

I see that too. I dont see him as uncomfortable or insecure, the way Thomas Brown is in press conferences. I just see him as an assistant type. Same as Kevin OConnell, I agree. At some point soon we will all have said what we think and there will be no point in debating it further. I dont want to sound like a broken record, and I dont have any proof of anything, so it's just a gut call. I do absolutely recognize Johnson's offensive scheme skills. If we could have him as OC, I'd do it in a heartbeat, so I get it. And if he can do that for us, it will be great. If we hire any of these guys, I'm gonna be all in, and hope for the positive traits to win out. I just personally cant help but to think that this team needs a strong identity and not just a big brain. I feel like the Bears need a chip on their shoulder so I prefer Vrabel. If we do go with Vrabel, then Im gonna want a guy very much like Johnson for OC, and it'll matter a lot who it is.

Vrabel obviously has a commanding physical presence, but as you say that isnt necessary. Leadership is. I see guys like McVey and Shanahan who are not physically imposing, but their chests speak dominance. Not that they are muscular, just their body language, to me, looks like a leader. Your example of OConnell is a good one. I agree he doesnt have the thing I'm talking about, but his team has been successful. I don't think they've beaten many good teams, but we almost beat them a few weeks ago. But Im not gonna try to argue that the Vikings arent really that good, no matter how you get to 13-2, it's still good of course. I wouldnt trust a guy like that to lead the Bears. But I agree you made a good point with him as an example. I dunno how long it will last, but at 13-2 you have the right to claim that example until they falter, and I cant prove they ever will. I just think in general those kind of guys cant keep the team together if they hit adversity?

I don't feel it at all - it's all good we just disagree about it. To me he feels corporate and assistant-ish, deferential. Confident, but because of his title, not like shines from inside confidence. And again, it's cool if we read him differently. I don't want to turn this discussion over the next months into anyone checking any one else's man card or ability to read strength or anything like that. I respect you, Mongo, and I respect most on this board as grown men, so this subject could be dicey. I look at this, and it feels different.

lets go Carolina! and as always, love the ongoing analysis - better than you get anywhere else on the web.