BearFan PHX

Well it sure does sell clicks, so expect it to continue. But in reality, the Bears are not keeping Justin unless no one trades for him. Can you imagine how Caleb's camp would feel about keeping a fan favorite around? It's a recipe for royally screwing up what could be the best thing you ever had. At this point, I can't say that anyone is trading a 3rd or better for Fields. I think they will, but I cant know that. But I do know that keeping Fields into training camp and having him participate is just asking for trouble. I think Justin's market is fast becoming a backup QB spot somewhere. And I think that says a lot about how he is as a QB. I can't imagine JF would be happy with that on any team including ours. If the Bears keep Fields and draft Williams, I could easily see Justin holding out to demand a trade. Wouldnt you? I would.

Bears signed a FS / SPecial Teams guy who worked with Hightower in SF. He was a Packer last year but was injured. Good depth, special teams move. ANd protection at an open position before free agency / the draft as a CYA too. https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2024/03/08/bears-free-agent-signing-safety-tarvarius-moore-collin-johnson-special-teams-stalwart-san-francisco-49ers-richard-hightower

omg what is happening?

I agree, and I'm on your side of this debate as well. I'm just saying Fields isn't good AND the Bears did him no favors. And whatever the case, Caleb is the real deal, and we have to take him. It'd be "crazy" not to.

RIght. ANd if Poles respects Justin as his QB1, then he'd have said something about that in order to respect Justin. In fact, he has said that in order to "do right by Justin" he's trying to get things resolved as fast as possible. Well if you know youre keeping Justin as your QB1, then you could just announce that. So to me that says they are at least trying to trade him.

right, so Chicago is iffy at best on keeping Justin at QB1. Thats all Im saying. Chicago hasnt been telling everyone that they love Justin and want to trade the #1 pick down. Theyve been acting like theyre looking to move Justin. I dont think thats a really controversial thing to say?

I said "with our actions" they havent said it with words, but you dont treat your franchise QB the way we have treated Justin. Compare to Arizona tweeting out that Murray is QB1.

There's a rumor today on Adam Ranks podcast that Justin is staying in Chicago, and it supposedly comes thru a reliable source from "as close a source to the Bears as you can get" so I just wanted to share a few thoughts. First off, as you all know, I don't believe Justin Fields will ever be a great QB in the league. But I wanted to underline a few points. First off, about two months ago I changed my stance from "if the Bears don't get rid of Justin it will be a fatal mistake" to "if the Bears dont draft a high first round rookie QB it will be a fatal mistake" so while I think keeping Fields is an error and will cause morale issues if they bring in Caleb (or another high rookie) I don't think that would be fatal. I do think putting the future of the franchise into Justin's hands would be a fatal mistake. But as long as they draft Caleb it wont kill us. We desperately need the new QB, but keeping Fields around another year while i think it's a bad idea, isnt a knife to the heart as long as we also draft Caleb - Fields will be riding the bench before week 7 anyway, maybe have some wildcard sets - minor stuff. I also think this rumor could have been released by Poles to create leverage in trades. Hes not getting the offers he wants, so he wants to create the appearance that we want to keep him. So while I dont think keeping Fields is a good idea, what actually matters to me is that we get Caleb, and as long as that happens if Fields stays it won't kill us.

well you know I think Fields isnt a good QB, but Nagy did screw up the team, and we gutted the roster in 2022. Those things happened too. But while the excuses do explain the lack of wins, the lack of plays where Fields made a read on time and then threw the ball says to me that Fields is deeply flawed as well. When we drafted him, he had fundamental problems that needed to be fixed, and so far they still haven't been. maybe a QB guru would have helped, but Fields could do it any day he decided to. No one made him hold the ball when he was looking at open receivers. Whatever that was probably needed a sports psychologist rather than another coach. And Im not saying Fields has mental illness! I'm saying that he has some kind of mental block in his game. lots of players see sports psychologists who arent crazy to gain an edge on their mental game.

Caleb certainly has all the football tools coming in. From here, the most likely bust scenarios come from the Bears failing Caleb rather than the other way around. I'm sure Fields fans can agree on that. I don't know a lot about Waldron, but the little I do know looks good. I'm also hearing that our passing game coordinator, Thomas Brown, is an up and coming dynamic talent that's expected to be an amazing head coach some day by people around the league. It seems they're grooming him for an Offensive Coordinator position. He'll be working closely with Caleb, and supposedly provide feedback and a check to those above him about what works and what doesn't from Caleb (and his) point of view. He's going to be unsung but very important for us, and his apparent reputation is another reason to hope things are going to go well for the Bears development of Williams. I dunno how long we will be able to keep them all, but we seem to have assembled a hell of a staff.

yup - it's the beginning of the Bears window opening. Gonna be very exciting to see it unfold. We have certainly paid the price in failure to get to this moment, and it will be gratifying to see Poles turn possibility into a winning roster.

This all seems logical and likely to me too. I also imagine Poles will add at least one more offensive lineman.

I guess, but after we've basically told the world (with our actions) that we don't believe in Justin, how could anyone expect him to come back and give his all for us? And if by some chance he did come back and succeed, I dont imagine him sticking around as soon as he is able to go somewhere else? So while the action to trade him has not yet been taken for sure, I think the door on him returning has realistically closed?

exactly, so one is gonna have to come from free agency

it sure would be good to have 3 more 2nd or 3rd round picks! But it's always like that. I'd like to keep Brisker, and i feel like Lus does too, so maybe youre right about McKinney. Zone teams generally put more money up front anyway, so thats another reason they may not want to pay big $ to a FS.

There is no doubt that the Bears didnt help Fields at all. Nagy was a disaster for everyone, and from his first start thrown against the Browns defensive line without even first team reps was a crime. After that, they tore the team down to the studs in 2022, and we werent going to win any games. Last year Justin had a better situation, but there was a lot of pressure up the middle that made things tougher. You could easily forgive everything those first two years, and even understand losing a bunch of games this past year, but Justin also didn't show flashes of reading defenses or getting the ball out in rhythm, playing in structure etc, and his mechanics have been consistently poor - so he didnt shine either. It's fair to say that the Bears didnt help Justin enough, but it's also fair to say that Justin didn't take what they gave him either. At any rate, we are moving forward and I am extremely excited about our future.

another possibility could be free agent Connor Williams from Miami. Hes recovering from injury, and the Bates trade allows them a minute to wait for him. But one way or another I think it's very likely they will add another center to this roster beyond Bates.

for sure. and he is definitely taking it as a serious issue.

^5 I'm sure we will (all) disagree at points too, but I cant imagine it being as emotional as it has been with Fields. I was early off the Fields train, and it hasn't been easy. I think we are all going to be blown away by Williams. He'll make mistakes too, he's not a God, but he's a pretty damned good prospect. Did you watch the Kurt Warner link I put above? I mean seeing it for yourself is just so powerful.

Amen! And welcome to the board!

Yeah, it's awesome! Poles has been disciplined all along the way, and waiting for years where there was talent to plug holes at those positions. Getting this kind of timing is a benefit of that kind of discipline finally paying off. It's not really luck or supernatural, but it sure does feel like the football Gods are starting to like us. Poles has made this luck - it's our time.

we are starting to look like a real roster. We dont need a haul of picks to put this puzzle together. I mean, sure it'd be amazing, but even more amazing will be putting a real QB into this mix too. I exepct another OL player in the under $10M range too. So a couple impact players AND a few more role fillers too. I truly think Poles is taking the OL seriously this offseason.

I assume, and I hope that by training camp we are all on the same page. I didnt post this because Kap says move on from Fields, because i think Pat did a great job articulating the keep Justin arguments too. But Im saying, you can see a guy in Kap who calls this trend a "cult" and "insane" and how many people have questioned his character - they both agree it's the most divisive issue in Chicago Sports history. They say that Twitter and everywhere else are "toxic" right now. So I'm saying it's not just me. And a lot of people are calling each other haters and worse for wanting Justin gone. You may think it's my tone that's so awful, but Kap had the same tone about the same point. It's not just me. And it's not uncommon. For example, I'm not calling anyone a "pig" or something like that which would be purely an insult. I'm saying it's "crazy" and "inane" and keeping Justin because you think he's going to get better is "delusional" - those are all descriptions of what i think is going on. Im directly saying I think it's become psychological in nature. Kap said the same. So it's not meant to be rough, it's meant to be descriptive of the mechanism I think I'm seeing. Some kind of cultural trend to see Justin as a victim and rally behind him. And it's nice on a personal level, but as a football strategy I think it is "crazy" meaning illogical. No need to argue whether it is crazy or not, because that's not my point here, my point is that people who are my side of the debate really think this. We're kind of shocked at it, and can't understand it at all. So this is sportstalk, not over the line awful or abusive, so let's stop using that to try to win points that are really about Fields and Williams if we can. What I've been saying is a mainstream position held by a lot of people, including those specific words. "crazy" "inane" "cult" "turd" "delusional" these arent fighting words.

Here is Kap on ESPN, posted 22 minutes ago, after everything that's been said, so not influenced by it at all, and the first minute says everything for me. It's not me you're mad at. This same conversation is happening all over Chicago. And I had no idea that Kap would use the word "cult" either. I'm not out there guys. It's just a different point of view, and it is authentically held, not with anger, but this is what I really think is happening.